Rich's Journey in the Drinks Industry

Speaker 1 1:14

Hello Rich , hi Denise , how are you ?

Speaker 2 1:18

I'm very good , I'm very good . So for those listening who obviously weren't part of our previous conversation of Rich and I , have had what you could call a back and forth trying to get hold of each other , between me avoiding his invitations to go running and him not being able to get the recording situation set up . But I've finally got him and today I'm very happy to be talking to Mr Rich Acacement , founder of Clean Break Brewing . So let's show everybody your fabulous cans . A bit of not sure how well they can be seen there , but I'll make sure everyone can see them . Hello , thank you . Thank you for joining me . It's so good to have you here . How is life in Leeds ?

Speaker 1 2:00

Yeah , it's good . We got there in the end , didn't we ? Denise ? That was funny , wasn't it ? Trying to get that stuff out . Now , life in Leeds is good . It's warm at the moment , as I'm sure it is everywhere in the UK . Yeah , which is weird because we've kind of had summer that was before summer holidays and then rubbish in the summer holidays , and then literally the weekend before the kids go back to school , it's like , ah , summer's appeared and it's autumn , so thanks for that .

Speaker 2 2:30

I know it's crazy . My big one went back to school was first day back to school today , because the first two days were inset days . And he went back to school today and I was in the trees in my part of London so I'm near Sutton and it's just ridiculous and I've got obviously the windows closed here for the recording sound and everything , but then I've got like just sun glaring in on me . So if I melt whilst you're talking , don't take it personally .

Speaker 1 2:53

Maybe you need a cold clean break when you're finished , Denise , Hi , hi . I don't feel sorry for the kids when they've gone back and they just come out like a big red , glowing beetroot , slutty mess , and they're just tired and irritable and they're not back into routine yet and it's like , ah God .

Speaker 2 3:13

It's going to be a fun afternoon , yeah , but let's talk about you , rich . So I'm so glad I finally got you , and I'm not going to tempt fate by risking it too long , so I want to get straight into it . So could you take me back to your beginning and tell me a little bit of the story of Richard ? Do you prefer Richard or Richard ?

Speaker 1 3:33

I tend to prefer Rich these days , yeah .

Speaker 2 3:36

All right , so tell me the story of Rich and how he came to be where you are today with Clean Break .

Speaker 1 3:42

Yeah Well , so my relation , so my sort of working career , if you like , has always been entwined with alcohol . If I'm honest with you , I left school and , like many did , sort of worked in pubs and bars , took a year out , funded that travelling through working in pubs and bars , and I think it was at that point where I sort of found a love and appreciation for hospitality . And then I went to university and didn't started studying landscape architecture of all things . I don't know why , really I have a reflection , but it was quite creative at school and thought it was a good option . Came up to Leeds where I live still now that didn't work out , realised it wasn't for me , took a step back , went back home a little bit with my tail between my legs , to be honest with you , still got the older , you've got to get some education , you've got to get some further education , kind of approach from parents and kind of sort of thought at this age yeah , going to university was really important . So I went back the following September to study , back up to Leeds because I loved Leeds and made a really good group of mates to study hospitality management . So yeah , kind of threw myself into this world of hospitality then and did the first year , went and did a placement year .

Speaker 1 5:02

Part of that placement year , six months I spent in Miami on South Beach working for a hotel , bar and restaurant there , which was quite an experience . As a 21 year old English lad , you can imagine it was good fun , yeah . Yeah , there was some hedonistic times out there that happened and this is , god Christ , it's going back to like 2021 , so it's 22 years ago now feels like an eternity ago , but it was fantastic and had six months there and then six months placement finishing off in the UK and I then went back to uni and kind of quickly realised actually I don't really need to get a degree to follow . My at the time was my career choice and my passion , which was hospitality . So I ended up quitting uni for the second time . So , yeah , got this pretty bad record for higher education and went straight into sort of management training with the company that I've done the second six month placement with here in Leeds and that then followed a really rewarding six or seven years with them kind of climbing the ranks through managing those bars and worked with some incredible people who are still within the hospitality industry and some quite well-known sort of faces really . So I was really lucky to have the privilege of working with some you know , some incredible hospitality individuals and that really paved the way for me for a sort of a the next few years really , in terms of kind of a love and appreciation of the drinks industry , the supply chain , hospitality , all that kind of stuff .

Speaker 1 6:39

And when I got towards the end of my 20s I sort of like I think a lot of people do kind of recognise that the lifestyle probably wasn't conducive to where I was at in life . Lots of sacrifices you make working in hospitality , as you well know . You know kind of missing Christmases and I think I've missed , like my dad's sort of 60th or 50th or 60th birthday , one of those big milestone birthdays sacrificed lots of , you know , bank holiday , weekends and things like that with my friends for the career and kind of got to the point where I thought actually , you know , I'm either going to go down the route of opening my own venue , which I couldn't really justify financially at the time , or you know I was going to go down a different career path and it took me into . That's when it sort of started into sales roles really and I started actually recruiting people , recruiting managers for bars and restaurants nationwide , before then going into sales roles within alcohol and my first experience of that was at the sort of the entry point , which was a brand ambassador for a vodka brand at the time . This was back in 2020 .

Speaker 1 7:46

I remember distinctly getting the offer letter for the job because the offer letter came through on my 30th birthday and I remember it coming through the door and I think myself and my girlfriend at the time who's now my wife we were living in a pokey little flat and we'd met at the recruitment company where we both worked and just kind of fallen for each other there . But that was a family run business by a couple and suddenly it went into administration and we both ended up getting made redundant . At the end of what was it the end of 2008 , I think it was which was the financial crash . So we kind of we'd gone through a period when we first got together of instability and jobs and work and income and things like that . So when that job offer letter came through it was a really big milestone moment , sort of a celebration , not least turning 30 , but also this job , and that was sort of the start of my career in the drinks industry and what followed was sort of 10 , 12 years of kind of pretty consistent progression up through the ranks in different roles regional sales roles into kind of national account management , and it paved the way for me to work in lots of really exciting different businesses that are , you know , kind of well regarded either well regarded regarded drinks brands , alcohol drinks brands in the globally , not just in the UK , and also within sort of the supply chain , within a wholesale , wholesale role and yeah , just just kind of a really fulfilling , enjoying career , which at many times didn't really feel like a job , it felt like a hobby . You know it was kind of that . That .

Speaker 1 9:29

You know my friends would always say to me you haven't really got a real job , have you ? You just go out there peddling booze and you know it was constantly around booze . So you know , alcohol was my life inside of work as well as it was outside of work . You know I was always the guy that was handed the wine menu at the dinner table . Or you know I would bring the fancy bottle of spirits to a party and be , you know , asked to make some cocktails and things like that . So you know , for the best part of you know , for my entire 30 , well , 20s and 30s really my life was wrapped up , so it's sort of two decades really my life was wrapped up in alcohol and essentially what I ended up doing was building an identity around booze and it was great and it was loads of fun whilst it lasted .

Speaker 1 10:14

But I think , as I got towards my 40s , we had kids . 2014 , our son arrived my relationship as a consumer of alcohol started to change . You know , you find when you've got kids , as you know , it's not conducive to having a hangover in the slightest . You know , lack of sleep , grumpy , irritable headaches , you know , all that kind of stuff is not good when you're trying to raise a family . So , as a consumer of alcohol , my consumption level starts to go down anyway quite rapidly , and especially through the week . And you know , and what happens with that is a cycle of you know , you're drinking less , so your tolerance goes down less , so when your tolerance goes down less , it means you want to drink less , and it's just a perpetual cycle like that , to the point whereby I kind of found myself at my end , towards the end of my 30s , my early 40s , like just starting to really struggle . If I'm honest with you . You know , just even like a couple of pints I would go to bed , waking up and , you know , get to sleep , sedated , more like , and then wake up kind of in the middle of the night , a needing a toilet , and be feeling like someone was sat on my chest with this kind of weird like anxious feeling of God , like palpitations and like oh my God , you know what's going on , and then just a really fuzzy , cloudy head and that then led into , obviously , the lockdowns and the pandemic as we know

Transition From Booze to Clean Break

Speaker 1 11:42

it .

Speaker 1 11:42

Just before the pandemic hit , I landed what was essentially a dream job for me , working with a spirit brand owner that had brands that were like spirit brands that I admired as bartenders so I'd known them for like 15 , 20 years and brands that I'd admired as a bartender , in my jobs and as a consumer as well . So it was like it was a dream job for me at the time and it was to go and essentially run and set up their national account distribution channel across on trade , hospitality group , pub groups and operators nationwide . So that was amazing . It was like , yeah , I achieved my kind of , my goal , my dream , you know , to get to this point , but I think in hindsight , subconsciously I think , at the time I probably knew I probably , whether I was aware or not , I think I'd sort of started to check out a little bit of it .

Speaker 1 12:37

My real passion and my joy and my love of it had sort of had gone , had dissipated a little bit . Not my love of the people and the industry , the hospitality industry , but I think booze . And I think again in hindsight , it's really easy to look back now . I've done a lot of looking back in recent times . You know now almost 20 or 20 months ago or three . But I think now I look back and I think I just spent too much time in and around booze and I just lost interest in it . I think it's like anything in life If you do have too much of a good thing , you kind of end up like getting a bit bored of it and anyway .

Speaker 1 13:16

So I started the job and then a month later the pandemic hit . So it was like right , work from home and then quickly furlough . We all know how that sort of panned out and the hospitality industry took a massive beating and we were kind of on off furlough for about a year and a half . When we finally went back to work . I really struggled to get back into it . Motivation , really poor mental health . Now , again on reflection , I think the impact of the pandemic was for me personally started to come clear that period and I just sensed that something wasn't right internally and I couldn't put my finger on it and I ended up . I've done some therapy didn't work for me . I ended up at the end of 2021 decided to take a break from drinking . At the time I wasn't honest with myself and I wasn't honest with other people .

Speaker 1 14:04

And they asked me by saying that I'm taking a break from alcohol because I feel that it's having a negative effect on my mental health . I said that I was doing it for the benefit of my training . I was training for a half-iron distance triathlon event , so it was almost like I felt I needed an excuse , like , how weird is that ? I needed a justification to say why I wasn't drinking alcohol , because I felt embarrassed about the fact that , you know , I probably knew deep down inside it was having a detrimental effect on my mental health . So I took that break and at the time I think I knew that if I went the six months alcohol-free to the event I probably would go beyond that as well . And then I didn't really at the time think about the impact I was going to have on my career . But within a couple of months it started to become clear that actually I felt in conflict . I felt like a hypocrite . On one hand , I was actively distancing myself from the thing that was meant to be in work , getting excited about and promoting and selling , and I just felt really conflicted . And again , that was a difficult period mental health right , trying to work out what I was doing , where I was going , because my identity was wrapped up in this . So it was kind of like , well , if I leave this career that I've had for 20 plus years , who am I ? What do I do ? Had no real qualifications , didn't really know any other industry and just felt a bit of a loss . But I think deep down inside I knew I needed to break away from it . I knew it was the right time to leave that career . So I made the leap and I found it . I landed a job which was a good segue out of what I was doing . Then I didn't know really what I wanted to do , but I knew what I didn't want to do anymore and that was sell booze and I worked on my sort of limiting self-belief , some mental health , with an NLP coach at the start of 2021 , just after I'd stopped drinking . And that was transformational really for me in terms of finding the belief in myself and kind of trying to work on some of these limiting self-beliefs and some of this sort of paradigm mindset switch . That kind of thing .

Speaker 1 16:06

Making small but not easy changes to sort of daily habits , I think was key . Some of the stuff that a lot of people think of as a bit woo-woo , like daily gratuity , mindfulness , meditation , all these kind of things that are small changes but not necessarily easy to make . But they had a great impact on me and so I started this new job in this time last year actually it was September last year and wasn't really something that I was particularly enamoured with , like selling the product that I was doing . It wasn't something that really gave me sort of a wasn't passionate about , as I was previously about alcohol , but knew it was a good way out . Anyway , it didn't work out . Two months in I wasn't right for them , they weren't right for me , and we went our separate ways .

Speaker 1 16:56

I remember my life managers take bringing me in on the Monday and sit me down my three month appraisal within my probation period , and just saying and I kind of knew in my head that it wasn't working out . But he sat me down , he said this probably isn't going to go the way you're expecting it to . We're not going to renew your contract , we're going to let you go from today . And I sat there for a few seconds and sort of process this and turn to him and I just said thank you . And he said what do you mean ? And I said well , I've had this idea for this brand , this alcohol free beer brand , clean Break .

Speaker 1 17:32

It started life as a name of a book originally but realised that probably wasn't the best source of income but then realised it was . I really liked the name Clean Break and I thought there's something in there because it represented so much to me me taking a clean break , making a clean break from an old career . You take a clean break , have a clean break and spurs with every pint you have . So I sort of saw something in this name for this idea , for this beer brand , and I just said thank you , you've given me the opportunity to go away and pursue my goals and my dreams and do something which I've aspired to do for many years .

Speaker 1 18:04

And having worked on my limiting self-belief , so I kind of had this change of the feeling , of the fear of failure kind of had now become the fear of missing out and doing something that could be really cool . So that was that and then just threw myself into it . So the last nine months has been essentially doing that . We remortgaged the house at the same time , which was convenient because it helped me put a bit of money into the business . It wasn't what we intended to use the money for , but needs must and you know we did that and I went through the process and got to June this year , beginning of June , when clean break officially launched . So we're just over . What's the date today ? So I think we're like three months almost to the day actually .

Speaker 2 18:50

Amazing , amazing Rich . That's one hell of a story . There's so much to unpack there . I like listening to your story because for me , it's like listening to somebody talk about my life in a parallel universe . There are so many similarities and I completely get where you're coming from . On all of it that 24 years for me in hospitality and bars and you're right , it becomes your identity , doesn't it ? It becomes who you are . You are the person that runs the bar you get to . You always choose the drinks . You know you're always asked the questions . If you're not part of that , you're like well , who else am I ?

Speaker 2 19:28

And moving on from that is such a huge step . Like you , I lost my job . I was redundancy during COVID while I was on maternity leave with my second , and part of me was so grateful for it because I just thought I can't go back into doing this anymore . I can't go back into just . I always used to say for the last 20 years , my job is getting people drunk , and I started to realise that I didn't want to get myself drunk anymore . It was just not doing me any positivity , and so I completely hear where you're coming from . I love that you had the idea of clean break and that that was something that you grew it from . So you say you wanted to write a book . Is that something that you started ? Have you ventured into that ? Have you put pen to paper or finger to keyboard ?

Speaker 1 20:24

No , not yet , it was an idea . I remember sat in the car with my wife and I came up and I was thinking that I just came out and spurred it out to her . I said I'm going to write a book and she looked at me and went what ? I went ? Yeah , I'm going to write a book about my experience . Because I kind of got to the point at this stage it was just before this time last summer , june , july and I felt like I'd got to a really good place in my old free journey and I was kind of moving into the good stuff and away from the kind of you know , that FOMO and overcoming you know any you know sort of physical connection or addiction not addiction , but need to drink alcohol . And I said , oh , you know , I feel like I'm in a good place and I feel like I could use my experience to help other people . And I said and I came up with this idea clean , break my messy divorce from alcohol . So I probably still write that . It's a bit of a spoiler .

Speaker 2 21:48

I've let everyone know about the book title , but you might need to go and patent that title or something . Richard , you're like oh , I've got to put an IP stamp on there or some sort .

Speaker 1 21:58

Yeah , well , I've got the IP on the brand name for the beer and a couple of other bits as well . But , yeah , you're right , I might do , but I've been . I have been on and off journaling , again one of those things , one of those sort of good , healthy changes and habits that I've tried to build into my life now and I've tried to journal wherever I can . I feel like the journaling is perhaps me writing the sort of latter stages of the book , if you like . So I think , yeah , and I think it's too early in this journey , the part of the journey that I'm on at the moment , for me to start writing that book , because I think there's so much that's going to come you know , it's clean break is only three months old there is , there's so much to come for clean break which , you know , which would form , you know , a really , you know , exciting and interesting part of the book . So I think it's too early to start doing that , but I will .

Speaker 2 22:55

Well , when you do , then I want the exclusive want to help you get it out there . All right , so I would like to talk a little bit about clean break itself . So you've been going for three months now and you've gone on a hell of a journey since you started . One of the things I love about you , rich and I mentioned this to you before in a previous message is your openness around what you're doing and how you're building your business and the challenges and the struggles that you have . Is is so admirable . You inspired me to be more open and more honest with my followers and my tribe and my people about what I was going through , and it helped no end , and I think that is to be commended . So hats off to you for that .

Speaker 2 23:45

You've gone through a lot of challenges getting this beer out to market in the . In the three months since it's been launched , you've also faced a few challenges . Tell us a little bit about the journey that it's been on . Let's start with the beer itself what does it taste like ? And then take me down that path with you .

Speaker 1 24:04

Yeah Well , yeah , lots to lots to chat about there . Yeah , In terms of the open and honest thing yeah , being open and honest is is one of the brand values that we live by with clean break , and one of my brand values as well . When I say we , it's not really a we , there's me and .

Speaker 1 24:19

Kristen , who does social media , who helps you as well ,

Building Clean Break

Speaker 1 24:23

and then I've also bought in now someone who I really respect to help me on marketing as well , who's come on board . I'll probably make a post about that a little bit later to share that news , but really excited for that . But being open and honest is a one of the brand values and one of the values that I sort of live my life to and I think it's really important . You know , when you're a founder led brand , you know , and being open and honest about the journey and what you've done to kind of create that authenticity which I think people , people keep on telling me that consumers buy into authentic brands . You know , and for me it's I've always worn my heart on my sleeve , I've won us with you . You know I've always been an open and honest guy , in some ways perhaps too too much , but you know I've got nothing to hide . You know , and I think again , since going on this alcohol free journey , you know I don't have that . I don't have that element of that sense of having anything to hide anymore . You know I'm sort of very proud of what I'm doing now and I think shouting about that is really important .

Speaker 1 25:26

I listened to a podcast the other day , funny enough , going on a bit of a tangent now , but this lady was talking about she's written a book called Say it Out Loud .

Speaker 1 25:34

I can't remember the name , but it was on the Hal Elrod podcast , the Achieving your Goals podcast , and the book was called Say it Out Loud or is called Say it Out Loud , and she's talking about how important it is when we , when we say things out loud like we do to other people , like if we're giving someone a compliment , you know we'd say , oh , you look great or well done , or you know we give them , you know we praise them out loud , and and you know we don't do that to ourselves you know we say it internally but we don't say it out loud .

Speaker 1 26:06

So I think by saying things out loud and being open and honest with myself and with other people on social media or on LinkedIn and things like that A it kind of reiterates that mindset , that positive mindset , but also it kind of gives me an element of accountability . You know it makes me accountable to all the people that I'm saying this stuff to , because it's like if I don't do this stuff that I'm saying , then you know they're going to hold me accountable , so that's the reason for that .

Speaker 1 26:33

In terms of the liquid , yeah , it's been a really iterative process actually and I've been lucky to work with some great people in the industry and one of the first people I reached out to was Jordan Charles at Nash Gang . I tried one of their collaboration beers with a brewery local to me in Yorkshire called vocation brewery and it was before I sort of officially made the leap to do this and I tried this beer in one of their vocation pubs and it's brilliant . It was the one of the best alcohol free beers I've tried at the time and I said to the guy by the bar I said that is banging . I said , do you brew this ? He's like , yeah , we do . It's a collab with Nash Gang and I was like I've never heard of Nash Gang at this point . So I did a bit of research , saw that they were obviously kind of doing some great stuff in the market in the category and I thought , well , this guy , jordan , looks like someone I need to be speaking to to get some advice and direction . And thank God I did , because he's been probably the main guiding light for me in terms of not just supporting me with the development of the recipe , but also just as someone to lean on and someone to act as sort of devil's advocate . And he's really open and honest himself as well and he speaks his mind and he says how it is , and I really like that . You know I don't get offended by people telling me something that might not be what I want to hear , but it's what I need to hear and he's done that throughout the process . So you know I can't thank him enough for the work that he did into helping me develop the recipe . So the liquid is .

Speaker 1 28:09

My brief to Jordan was to create a beer that is , you know , something for every occasion . Essentially I wanted to . One of the driving factors for me and create clean break was my wise , if you like was when I first stopped drinking . I got some of the least supportive comments from people closest to me . You know friends who still drink and it was kind of like not not knowingly critical or not trying to hurt me in any way , and but you know comments like I can't support that or how long you're gonna keep this up for you can't stop drinking . All your mates and your wife drink or bore off . You know these kind of sort of comments which we've all had , people who take a break from alcohol have all had Because of this weird sort of dynamic that we have as a society , with alcohol thinking that we have to drink it . So that was one of those are sort of the things that spurred me on .

Speaker 1 28:58

So , when I was thinking about the recipe , I wanted to create a product that I could be proud to put in front of my friends and say , you know , look , try this . You know , see what you think of this , and for them say , oh , that's great , you know . And then we'd say , well , it's alcohol free and it's mine . So that was one of the motivating factors . And so a beer for every occasion and Landing somewhere between sort of your clean , crisp kind of refreshing lager and your eye , more hoppy led , more hot-forward flavor IPA . Some of it was a kind of an in-between , a sort of a halfway post , really , if you like , and kind of landed on the idea of a pale ale , really , which has an element of both . So you know , kind of did a lot of research into products that are out there on the market , got some inspiration from some of the ones that I liked and , yeah , sort of put together this brief for Jordan of what I was looking for and it was yeah , it was a pretty thorough brief really and I remember the first can's coming off the brew line at my brew partner up in Hexham in the north , near Newcastle Allendale brewery again another partner that I need to offer thanks and praiseful because they've been great . But I remember those first cans coming off the brew line . I said to Neil up there I was like okay , can I , can I , can I pick up a can ? He's like you can do what you want with it , rich , it's your bloody beer , all right , okay , that's a pretty cool Thanks of a can of the brew line friend , you know , freshly canned , open the can , cracked it open , that feeling , that noise , that First can took a sip and I was just like that is better than I could ever have imagined and it just was like One of those milestone moments . You know pinch me moments , and there's been so many of those on the on the journey so far . Well , it's just like wow , that says great and really hit the brief you know perfectly . So really pleased with how the liquids come out .

Speaker 1 30:46

It uses Citra hops , which a lot of people will know , but then also to sort of lesser-known hops , el Dorado and one called Nelson Savanne . There's a bit of wheat in the , in the mash bill , which gives a bit of texture , a little bit of richness to bit of body to the beer as well , because you know , when you , when you've not got the alcohol , alcohol carries a lot of texture and and sort of mouth feel really more than anything else . So you know , trying to replicate , that is one of the challenges with alcohol free products . So the wheat gives it that , that bit of alcohol free . So it's not gluten free but it's vegan and it's been heavily inspired by my love of my loving experiences of running in recent years . And , and you know , when I think about my running and my alcohol free journey and my running journey , they they are , they've dovetailed with each other and they've been the two most transformational , transformational experiences and things in my life in recent years which have helped me make positive progress .

Speaker 1 31:44

I wanted to use the , the influences and my experiences and my love of running in some way to bring into the beer . So it's named clean break , progression , pale , oh , so progression , partly representing my , my progression over the last couple of years from , you know , being in a not a great place With my mental health , you know to to making progression myself in my own life , but also progression being one of my favorite types of run , where you start slow and you get quicker and you build up . It's a type of run that I love . And then that device on the front yeah , that's my . I was looking at my Strava graph of a progression run One day and I thought , well , that'd be a really cool thing to try and add on to the can of the beer . So me and my designer , mike Williams from the Brewers Design Society someone else I need to shout out actually we worked on this idea of using the progression bar , strava bra graph , bar graph device on the front and that's what that represents . And then on the back you've also got the , the , the blue and white kind of box , which is the , the race the , my representation of , like a race bib . So if you did a marathon or half marathon , you'd have your name and your number on your race bib and it's got clean break and a bit of information about the brand . And then there's the , and then there's the , the Sort of positive progress plan , which I call it , which is my , my commitment to sort of To helping others really , and you know from day dot I kind of made this promise , if you like , that I realized I had an opportunity to not just do something great for myself and my family but also to help others .

Speaker 1 33:16

And the positive progress plan really is my commitment to Always doing what feels right and helping others feel great . And and with this I donate 10 pence per unit sold to , to , currently to Organizations . The retail sales go anything through D to see my website or , through retail sales , go to the running charity who do some fantastic work with Young people who are either homeless or at risk of homelessness , so helping them build better life skills around . You know , through the idea of training for events and runs and things that seem Unachievable at first . I take a marathon as a prime example . You know , when you first look at that concept of running a marathon , but for a lot of people it's like no way can I do that . But how do you eat an elephant ? You know you break it down into small , manageable chunks , you know , and you start by putting every block in the wall , from the foundations Upwards and you build the wall brick by brick , and it's that idea which I really bought into .

Speaker 1 34:13

When I first chatted to Alex Eagle , who's the CEO , the founder of the charity , and I thought , yeah , this is a , this is an organization , this is something I want to support and be on board with . And then my hospitality partner organization , charitable organization . They're actually a Social enterprise , not for profit social enterprise , but it's the the burnt chef project , who Do a lot of fantastic work globally actually . Now Chris Hall is the founder and then they support on trade operators by giving them support , advice and raising awareness around kind of the challenges of mental health within the hospitality industry , which I think is really important because , as we both know , it's a really really challenging industry to work in , both physically and mentally demanding , and I think if we want a healthy hospitality industry going forward , then needs to be more support and investment and advice . That goes into , you know , good mental health support for hospitality workers , because I think otherwise , you know , people will continue to move away from from that career path and I think that would be a huge shame . If people do so , the work they're doing is is just brilliant , you know , and then I'm really pleased to be able to in some way support that .

Speaker 1 35:31

It's only a small amount , but you know , each , each unit , there's 10 pence that goes towards , that will go towards those Organizations . And I thought about doing a 10 pence 10% of profits kind of scheme . But then when I got into that it was like I might not make any profit in the first couple of years at 10% of nothing is nothing , so what's the point of doing that ? And then I had a really good conversation with someone who , again , I really value their opinion and I'm there a be caught Business , and he said well , why don't you look at doing a , you know , per unit Contribution ? And that's where the tempest 10 pence from every unit came from . And the positive progress plan is what I've called it and , and for me it's , you know , it's all about making positive progress .

Speaker 2 36:12

How can I make ?

Speaker 1 36:13

other people help . How can I help other people make positive progress in their life ? And you know , taking a break from alcohol and Sharing the joys and benefits of that and running other two priorities for me going forward .

Speaker 2 36:25

Hey , hey , I will get you back to the episode in just a second , but first a quick word from our sponsors me , that's right . This week's episode is sponsored by low no drinker magazine , the number one UK magazine for sober , curious drinkers . Each issue is packed full of news , reviews and interviews from the people , places and brands Leading the low and no alcohol revolution . You can subscribe to low no drinker magazine and read your copy online or in print Anywhere in the world , and subscriptions start from just three pounds 45 . Get your subscription today and use code low no pod to get 20% off your first two issues over at low no drinker magazinecom .

Speaker 2 37:09

With 24 years of experience and hospitality myself , I know firsthand just how intense an environment it can be and just how far down the rabbit hole you can go . The we recover loudly podcast , hosted by shell Regina , aims to show people that it is possible to recover from these Destructive patterns and to still work within the industry they love . Shell talks to front of house and back of house team members , interviewing everyone from chefs and bartenders to managers and operations , as well as mental health professionals , about the reasons why there is so much addiction , burnout , anxiety and depression in the industry . She asked the question if alcohol and drugs were never the problem , but the solution , the . What changes do we all need to make to allow the hospitality industry and its people to survive and thrive ? Subscribe now to we recover loudly wherever you get your podcasts . And now back to the show Amazing , amazing . I love that . I love charities like that . There's another one that we recover loudly podcast , which is also run by Michelle , who is from a hospitality background .

Speaker 2 38:20

And that's been a similar journey to us and causes like that and the burnt chef . I've seen so many of my own teams burn out in spectacular ways due to hospitality and drinking and of course in hospitality it's never just drinking , you know , drugs are all never too far away from it all . So I think that's absolutely wonderful that you're supporting them , and to say it's not very much , I don't think it's fair to yourself , because you know you are helping and not only are you donating and you're helping financially , but you're raising awareness . So I'll make sure that , that is , they are linked in the show notes below so people can go and check out those resources as well and see how they can help and support your great cause . So thanks for sharing that .

Speaker 1 39:08

Thank you , yeah , love Michelle . Me and Michelle have met and chatted a lot actually we both . Funny enough , we both launched our podcasts around the same time , so we've had a lot of covered .

Speaker 2 39:21

I'm noticing that right , the community around the low and no , you know it's . It's . It's kind of like when you're working in hospitality , right , and you all kind of build these relationships and these connections , you get close . I noticed that the low know community is very similar to that . There are a lot of people that just want to reach out and just want to connect with each other and want to help each other . You know , everyone I speak to is always like oh , have you spoken to this person ? Or you should check this out , and I love that Whilst , when we first help other people that we're cutting back you do , I got it to , I got the I'll really , or don't be silly , or how long is that going to last then ? But within this community , everyone is like come on in , pull up a few , let's do it together , let's chat , and I think that's what we need to keep doing more of .

Speaker 1 40:09

Yeah , and you're absolutely right . And you know going on an alcohol free journey is something that only you as an individual can do . You know you can't force other people to go on their own . They've got to be read . One thing I realized is you know , if you do want to make a change like that in your life , you've got to be ready to do it for yourself . You can't do it for anyone else but it but it is because you're swimming against the tide . You know you're going against what most of society assumes is normal or sees as normal , and that's drinking alcohol . You know you can find it's quite lonely and I found that the end of last year I found myself feeling quite lonely , if you like .

Speaker 1 40:47

And you're absolutely right that the you know the great thing about the alcohol free category within the wider drinks category is a lot of the brands are yes , there's your Heineken zeros and your Guinness zeros and your Tancre and gin Gordon zeros , that kind of thing which you know that in some ways it sometimes feels like they're a bit of a tick box exercise to the for the major drinks brand alcohol producers to have because they recognize the growth in alcohol free but at the same time .

Speaker 1 41:14

They're really important to have because they raise awareness . But the a lot of the brands in the alcohol free space are found led brands , you know , and you look at the likes of , you know Elliot Collenio and you know Unlimited with Johnny and I know you've had Johnny on was great to see and what these , what these other brands and the individuals that that start them do . You know it's their own journey that they go on and their soul focus is the alcohol free part of the industry . So you're right , it is so supportive and you know some of the communities that are out there now are really important and really valuable for people who kind of decide they want to go on this journey but maybe feel that sense of you know it's a little bit lonely you buy yourself and your closest group of mates . The chances are it's only you doing this .

Speaker 1 42:00

You know , and then something you find yourself not really wanting to go to pubs all the time . You want to do other stuff . There's other things that you get time back and you realize you want to spend time . You're time doing other things . So yeah , so that that community aspect is really within the alcohol free space .

Speaker 2 42:16

Yeah , it really is . Rich talked to me a little bit more about clean break in itself , so you've told me a bit about the inspiration for the design around the can and the journey that's that's got you here . How has it been going in real terms for the last three months ? So it's not a very long time , I know , but it must feel like a bit of a whirlwind . But I'm seeing you more and more on on Instagram in various places that you know you're getting out there . How are you finding that , that reach to get out to consumers and bars and to independence ? What's , what's your , what's the reaction been like that you've been receiving from people ?

Speaker 1 43:00

Yeah , so the reaction has been fantastic

Building a Brand

Speaker 1 43:02

. Actually , I've already won an award with IWSC which I completely forgot I'd entered . If I'm honest with you , it was pre launch and then I got an email . I got an email from them saying congratulations , you want to see all the lights . One point I was like , yeah , that's good , which is great , and the reaction has been amazing .

Speaker 1 43:21

You know the response to the liquid , to the brand , to the sort of the ethos and kind of what I'm trying to do , because you know , for me , clean breath , the beer , is just a vehicle for me to do what I want to do and the real overarching mission , if you like , and the vision for the brand is much bigger than just an alcohol free beer brand . It's , you know , got lifestyle brand wrapped up into it and you know all that kind of thing . So so the reaction has been amazing . You know the brand building part of it is great , it's great fun , and especially when you know it's something that means so much to you , like it does with me , you know , and you know really building something , creating something that has a lot of me put into it , and it makes it so much easier when that's the case when you're going out and selling it to people . When you're talking to people about it , it's not just like I haven't just chosen to stick it in a gold bottle or sprinkle it with unicorn dust or something like that or some other kind of marketing BS like which would be the easy , quick route to success to go down . But you know that's not what I've chosen to do . You know I want to build something that's authentic and that's got longevity , and you know I want to bring people on that journey with me . So the brand building part of it is going brilliantly . I've also got Kristin on board and she's been a huge help on social media . Takes that weight off my shoulders .

Speaker 1 44:45

The reality , when it comes to this commercial side and the sales side of it if again being open and honest is probably quite different . You know you're in a category which has got a huge growth opportunity and it will continue to grow . If anyone who doesn't think that the alcohol free sector is going to continue to grow and people are going to continue to drink less alcohol is , you know , daft . Really . If I'm honest with you , you know you kind of need to be aware to that , but because of that and because of the fact that it's never been easier to launch a drink . You know , in drinks brand there's a lot of new brands coming to market . You know every , every established brewery has got their own alcohol free option . They've already got the benefit of having their brand name out there . That reach distribution into supermarkets and multiple retailers and across bars and pubs and restaurants nationally .

Speaker 1 45:30

So for someone like Heineken or Gordon's or Tanqueray or Guinness , it's just an easy tagging . You know . It's literally just oh , we've got this as an add on to our product range . Take this and we'll put this into . You know this will form part of our agreement with you . You know our commercial agreement with you .

Speaker 1 45:48

So for a little old me , you know where I've got a startup fund . You know startup founder led business with , you know , self funded , with a you know a few thousand pounds put into it from our remodule of our house , you know , and that's all gone now and it's pretty bloody hard . It's hit a bit of a brick wall now . Part of the reason for that is the fact that I've had to take my foot off the gas in the last four weeks because of school holidays , so I just haven't been able to be as productive on the beer brand , as I would like to be , because the kids have had to take priority . Then I've also needed to generate some income somewhere . So I've been doing some consultancy work a couple of days a week . So the reality is that I haven't been able to invest as much time as I would like to in the beer .

Speaker 1 46:33

But there's a plan . I've got a plan . That's what I'm sort of actioning now . That involves looking to raise some investment and improve the cash flow which will enable me to step back from doing the consultancy work in the coming month or so so that I can sort of knowingly be able to take a totally nominal literally break even amount of salary out of the business to be able to live , put food on the table for the kids and pay the bills , but also to be able to focus 100% on to clean break and really move that forward . And I've also realized that you know as great as it's been doing this by myself , it's been really liberating to not have to get any validation from anyone else .

Speaker 1 47:25

I've also got to the point now where I feel I've bought it as far as I can just by myself . So I'm sort of I've recognized that I need to bring other people on board and sort of build a team around me really of you know , a board of advisors , people who can offer a bit of knowledge , experience , contacts , a bit of time and a bit of money , investment in return for a small amount of equity in the business as well . And I think that's the way I'm going to go forward , as well as Ray , as well as taking out a new business loan , and then that will hopefully enable me to to really invest in the areas that I need to to raise awareness , because you can't just flick on a switch . It's not like , oh , I've got a product , now what do I do with it ? You flick on a switch . I think some people do end up having that realization really early . They make a product without thinking about what they're going to do when they made the product .

Speaker 1 48:22

My background in on trade helps because I kind of know the supply chain and the network and contact . So I've started close to me and got listings locally to me and on trade venues , which has been great , draft on tap and for cans , which has been brilliant . But I don't have a national distribution network to lean on to get that further feel at the moment . That will come with time . But the priority for me at the moment is focused building the distribution locally in the on trade , so that the you know , that kind of awareness of the brand sort of spreads and rather than sort of going all guns blazing and throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks nationwide . You know , I don't want to do that , I don't want to dilute the brand name . I want the brand to grow strongly from , from this hub in Leeds , you know , out into other parts of the North , into Manchester , liverpool , you know , york , sheffield , those kind of places , and then kind of look to to grow it on trade wise nationwide . Alongside that , obviously , the DTC side of the business is kind of where the sort of the most profitable part of the business comes from .

Speaker 1 49:31

But you know that that again doesn't happen overnight . You know it's not just I've got this brand Instagram's up , facebook's up , flicker switch , there you go . You know you've got to gain followers , you know , and I don't want to just go down the route of buying , buying them . You know I would like to generate that as much as organic players are possibly , can , you know . And then you've got to drive traffic to your website .

Speaker 1 49:54

The stuff that I've done so far , that I've created by myself . Essentially , I've kind of gone with the attitude of good enough is good enough . So , like the website , for example , when I launched it was good enough , but it's not good enough for now . You know it needs to get better , it needs tweaking , it needs some of those rough edges chiseling off , and likewise some of the other , some of the other sort of parts of the business need the same . So that's why I need some other people to help me . B , I need some of that investment to come in to support the cash flow to be able to invest in the right areas . I'm not going to go down the route of multiple SKUs . It will be pay a lay , all log , possibly an IPO later .

Speaker 1 50:35

I think the two is a good route to go down . Given that you know , larga still makes up the vast majority of the liquid consumed , both in alcohol and alcohol free beer . I think for me that , you know , the thing that stands out really around this as well is is , both in terms of the beer and the running is . Connection is key for me , you know , and I think it's so important when what I've recognised since I've started my alcohol free journey is the connections that I've made with the people have been a amazing , but also , you know , much more kind of , visceral and real than ever before . And I think you know we do .

Speaker 1 51:15

Despite not drinking alcohol , we do crave connection , and so I think it's so important for venues , operators , hospitality venues , to recognise that and see this growing market and offer a good alcohol free range so that the non drinkers come that , can come in and feel included in the . You know , in the experience , and I think hospitality is moving into a new era of where we were kind of it was always focused on people getting pissed . I think now it's people going to great hospitality venues for connection , and the connection is the main thing , whether that is if you're drinking or not , that that should be a material . You know it's the connection which is important . So , and then , likewise , you know , for me , running and having started three running groups myself this year , it's the connections that I've made through the running groups have been amazing .

Speaker 2 52:05

And also , you know , I think , going back to what you were saying before about the team and the business and what you need to help grow , I think it's really important to be able to recognise that you've when you've reached a certain circumstance where you need to have other people come on board . You know , I think you're right when we do these things as a solo founder as well , you take a lot of pride , don't you ? And I've done this . I've created this , I built it from the ground up , all by myself , but there's not a single successful business out there in any sector that's just run by one solo person . We need people around us , we need teams , we need experience , we need advocates and mentors and guidance and people who know more about things than we do . So I think it's it's perfectly reasonable that you're now in a stage where you've got everything up off the ground . You've got it up and running and now you're ready to bring on a team to help you take it to the next level .

Speaker 2 53:08

So , I think that someone listening here is going to be able to go . I know how to do that and if you do , then I beseech you to reach out to Rich and give him a shout , because I think it's a great brand and it deserves the help to get it to the next level .

Speaker 1 53:22

Yeah , and you know I'm sort of I'm fully aware of A what I'm good at , but also what I'm not so strong at , you know , and where I need helping . And you know I'm very good at doing the things that I'm good at . I'm not so good at doing the things that I'm not so good at . And I think this idea of teamwork has become this period that I've had in the last four , four , six weeks with the kids being off school . As much as it's been frustrating not being able to be productive on the beer and focus on the beer , it's actually been really good for me , partly because it's meant , you know we've had , we've spent time with the kids and you know that kind of thing , but also because it's helped me realise the importance of teamwork . And you know , the best team player that I've got in my life is my wife , bridget . So you know , knowing that , I couldn't do this without her , you know , both this journey in terms of the beer , but also the journey with the kids and the family . You know we couldn't do this alone and the support that we offer each other is so vitally important . And , funny enough , just this morning she , she , we had a conversation on the phone where she was fairly upset and I had to just appease her around . Everything's going to be all right , don't worry , love .

Speaker 1 54:30

So it's just this , this knowing that this , you know , the working on things as a team is so important , and that's just kind of reinforced to me where I was a bit like you know , can I do it myself ? Can I just go down the route , get in the new business line , can I keep , you know , going myself ? But then I thought actually I'm just being stubborn and and do you know what ? There are so many brilliant people out there that you know could come on board and help and support and help me not just , not just make clean break a success , but , you know , make it . You know , an incredible success , a huge success . You know , achieve that , some of the things that some of the other brands out there that have done and you know , I look at the likes of you know the incredible work that people are lucky , saying , and the things that , like athletic brewing , have achieved . And I just think you know we can .

Speaker 1 55:18

You know the aspiration is there to do this clean break .

Speaker 2 55:23

And a big shout out to Bridget as well , because you know , I completely understand that the the support of a spouse is invaluable when you're doing these things . Because you do , you get your , you get your head down , don't you ? You get into what you're doing and the kids are still there and they still need feeding and they still need attention and the house still needs cleaning and and I completely understand you know that sort of the need to have somebody there who's prepared to support you and and encourage you along the way . And you're right , the last few weeks for me as well , having my , my big one off school , my little one's still a nursery , but still , you know you're in that phase , aren't you ? But you want to keep working , because you know you've got stuff to do , but you want to give your kids the time that they deserve , because that's a whole point of you doing these things in the first place . You want to be able to be alive that you can enjoy with your family .

Speaker 1 56:12

Yeah .

Speaker 1 56:13

Getting that balance is a challenge and a half , isn't it ? It's such a juggling act and you know , being

Balancing Work and Alcohol-Free Beverages

Speaker 1 56:20

able to surrender to these things , I think , is a skill that I'm learning at the moment as well . You know , when you can sort of surrender to the things that you can't change , you know and really accept that there's only two things in our lives that we can fully , 100% control , and that's our thoughts or our beliefs and our actions . You know , everything else is to some degree out of our control . So if you can sort of accept that and almost surrender to the things that you can't control , that's a big weight off your shoulders . You know , and , and funnily enough , I'm doing some other stuff as well at the moment . You know , some positive psychology coaching , diploma recording , which is really rewarding .

Speaker 1 56:59

And I'm doing in the dry app DIY , which is a great alcohol-free social media space for people who are so curious or taking a break from booze . And I do a weekly Saturday morning live in there at 7.30 , where I kind of share some of my musings and I'm generally out on the out , on a run . So it's kind of the sort of the almost like the Mr Motivator of Saturday mornings . You know , out on my run kind of sort of positive psychology stuff talking a little bit about . I talked about this idea of surrendering to . You know , being able to surrender to things that we can't control , and it's really liberating when you're able to do that .

Speaker 2 57:35

Amazing , rich . It has been amazing talking to you . I've got two more questions before I let you go , so one is one that I like to ask everyone that I speak to because , as we were saying beforehand , talking about community and sharing the love for the loner way of life , so I pose this one to everyone . It's a lovely sunny day and you're off out to a barbecue . Other than the phenomenal clean break , what other loner beers or drinks do you like to take with you to enjoy on a nice day out ?

Speaker 1 58:08

Yeah , all that's a great question . I mean , like , I do really enjoy pretty much anything that Mashed Gang have produced . Their beers are phenomenal and they you know it's they do things a bit differently . You know it's . You know it really is ripping up the rulebook , which is really exciting to see In terms of kind of your spirits . There's some really cool sort of spirit alternatives that have come onto market and what I really like in the category in particular is that the spirit alternatives that aren't just trying to replicate the flavors and the styles of existing alcohol spirit .

Speaker 1 58:45

So you know the things that are just like oh , we're an alcohol free gin . Technically , there's no such things as an alcohol free gin because it has to be 37.5% . I won't go into that . I used to work for a gin company , by the way , so that's why I know that . But you know , and you know there is a place for that , and I see that some people just want that , that association , and people you know want to know , want to put things into boxes .

Speaker 1 59:09

But I really like things like Bativo , for example I don't know if you've tried that which is insane and it's just like nothing else you've tried . You know there isn't an alcoholic equivalent to it . It's got that kind of you know sort of a aperitif style flavor to it . You know that bittersweet flavor to it . It's got a bit of viscosity , a bit of mouthfeel . It pairs really well with just like soda or tonic water and some of those other aperitifs . Wilfrids is like another one . For example , is it a non as well ? Do a really nice one . And then you know , I like kind of , I actually really like making an alcohol free Nagrodi using some of those things . And then you know , taking one of your sort of your alcohol free gin alternatives , ellie's Kalenjo , what she's doing is fantastic . So those guys , I miss coconut . I love Colette Smith . Coconut is amazing . That pairs really well , I found , with tropical Red Bull , funnily enough .

Speaker 1 1:00:09

Yeah , that's different , yeah , and then wine . Wine is , you know , I think it's safe to say wine is still the category which hasn't perhaps really cracked it yet . But there are some great brands out there . Amanda Thompson's Naughty is brilliant , especially the sparkling accolade of introduced one into Morrison's is called , and then which is a Cabernet Sauvignon I've still yet to try that brand called Zeno , zeno , zeno , which apparently is really good . Oh , you've got a bottle there , yeah , so I need to . I need to try some of that and just , you know , some of the . Yeah , the plethora of alcohol free beers and the quality of alcohol free beers on the market now is just insane . You know , you just like , for me , I don't miss alcoholic beer at all because there's so much choice in an out in a non alcoholic space . So , yeah , so those are the things I enjoy .

Speaker 2 1:01:06

Amazing , amazing Rich . Where do you want people to go when they want to find out more about you and your amazing drink and your fabulous activities ? Your running everything . Where should we send people to go and find you ?

Speaker 1 1:01:21

Yeah well , website for clean break is wwwcleanbreakbrewingcom . If you head there you can read about the story , read about the values of the brand and you know you can obviously buy as well . We've got . We've got it in 12 pack and multiples of , but then I've also started doing four packs , which I actually

Small Business Growth and Promotion

Speaker 1 1:01:38

do the fulfillment myself of at the moment , because it just links into Royal Mail click and drop and it's the easiest way for me to do it . So if you're unsure about getting a 12 pack , four packs are really good option .

Speaker 1 1:01:49

13 and a half quid including delivery , which I think represents really good value . And then Instagram pages as well . So clean at clean break brewing is the Instagram page , which then also feeds into Facebook . And then my , my running stuff is based around running dry . So running dry DIY underscore rich or running dry underscore leads is my running dry group for leads . And then finding Jo Mo is my is my alcohol free podcast , which I put on hold for summer , but I will relaunch in the autumn and get that up and running against . I know a lot of people enjoy that .

Speaker 2 1:02:31

Wonderful , wonderful . I will make sure that all of those links are noted in the show notes below and you can find them on the websites , and I'll link to everything everywhere so everyone can come and find you Rich . It has been a real joy and a real pleasure talking to you . Thank you so much for your patience and your understanding of all the technical issues that we had getting to each other , and thank you for your time today , today's now is my fault .

Speaker 1 1:02:58

My PC wasn't good enough and powerful enough to for us to do on there , but we got there in the end . But thanks , thank you so much for having me up .