Catching up after Christmas

Speaker 1 1:12

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Low no Drinker podcast . Today we are talking to the wonderful Luke Hemsley from Wednesday's Domain , a new favorite find of mine , and I'm not just saying that because I'm talking to him . I tried his wines at a festival that we met at a few months ago and I was actually blown away by how good particularly the red was . That was my favorite . So I invited Luke on to tell us a bit more about Wednesday's Domain , what is he loves about Wednesday's , how his wine is made and lots of exciting things about the product . So hello , luke , thanks for joining me . How you doing .

Speaker 2 1:52

Morning , denise . Yeah , thank you for having me . It's a real pleasure to be on the podcast . How am I doing ? I'm doing very well , thank you . As an alcohol free wine business , january is incredibly busy . We also touched on before the before the episode that we've got a newborn daughter at home as well . So lots going on , but all very exciting .

Speaker 1 2:13

It is . It's crazy , isn't it , that January I mentioned this to somebody and I was like , oh it's so crazy . I thought it was supposed to be quiet in January , but they pointed out , quite rightly , that for someone in the low and no world , january is actually one of our busiest times of the year , and it falling after Christmas . You just don't feel like you've had a chance to stop , do you ?

Speaker 2 2:32

Yeah , it's interesting , I think you know , historically , a lot of known low brands , you know , made the bulk of their revenues at Christmas and New Year . I do think that's changing and I'm sure you've got some really interesting insights from the data that you see in the brands you speak to , around no and low products being beginning to be consumed year round . But but certainly , as things stand , january is an incredibly busy time and and and yeah , it's one of those ones that is massively exciting , but but also it's full on . It's

Alcohol-free or non-alcoholic?

Speaker 2 3:06

definitely it is .

Speaker 1 3:08

So tell me about these wonderful wines , and let's start at the very beginning . So Wednesday's Domain is a collection of some fantastic . Do you prefer the term alcohol free , non-alcoholic ? How do you describe your wines to people ?

Speaker 2 3:23

Yeah , it's interesting . I mean , this is certainly a debate that that's raging and continues to rage within within the no and low space . I think legally we're probably meant to call them non-alcoholic . I prefer the term alcohol free . I think it has more positive connotations . So we will always call them alcohol free wines or alcohol free wine alternatives

A brief history of Wednesday's Domaine

Speaker 2 3:45

In terms of . In terms of the business itself , is it worth me giving you kind of a minute or two on the back story and where the business came from ?

Speaker 1 3:53

Absolutely .

Speaker 2 3:54

Yeah . So essentially prior to setting up Wednesday's Domain , I'd long wanted to set up my own business . I'd worked in a couple of startups , been very lucky to work with some massively inspiring and experienced entrepreneurs . But I also realized at the beginning of covid that if I didn't start thinking hard about what I want to start business to be , there'd be a very real risk that I would never set anything up and I would spend my whole life banging on people about how one day I wanted to set up my own business . So I spent some time looking at businesses that I've admired and I realized that they all had two things in common . One was that they were physical products and the second was that they were rooted in delightful customer experiences . So I could give you that product and I could see you consume it , enjoy it , laugh , smile , tell your friends about it . That's what motivated me , motivates me and will motivate me over the long term . And that was important to me because I've seen , you know , a number of founders , a number of entrepreneurs certainly lose interest in an idea and kind of burn out because they're not passionate about what they're doing . So that was the kind of motivation for me .

Speaker 2 4:59

As for where alcohol free wine specifically came from . During covid , my wife and I spent some time with our respective parents , my in-laws , her in-laws and most evenings we would find ourselves having a drink . You know , there'd be beers , there'd be wine , there'd be spirits and , like a lot of people during covid , we used alcohol . We used a drink to delineate day from night . And that moment , you know , the working day is done , now we're relaxing , and once that was fun .

Speaker 2 5:26

I kind of quickly realized it wasn't sustainable . It wasn't compatible with having a demanding job , albeit remotely . It wasn't compatible with staying mentally and physically fit . So I looked at , went down to the supermarket which was one of the only things you could do , you know , in your recreational free time during covid and I was amazed at the growth in variety and quality of alcohol free beers and spirits .

Speaker 2 5:48

What had previously been a bit of a backwater , something no one was too proud to enjoy or to acknowledge , but it was full of some amazing brands . When it came to wine , there was nothing , you know , the liquids were incredibly poor quality , the brands felt like afterthought . So I figured there was a gap for a great tasting , beautifully branded alcohol free wine , and that's what we've looked to create with Wednesday's Domain . The name Wednesday's Domain is a nod to the fact that we want to be people's food and drink lovers . Midweek wine alternative . You know , we primarily exist for people who do enjoy a drink , but they're looking to moderate at certain moments , and Wednesday tends to be that day where a lot of us crack and we think we're halfway there , I'm just going to have a drink , and so we're there to provide that choice in those moments . If you do want to drink , great , but equally if you , if you want an alcohol free alternative , then we're here for you .

Speaker 1 6:42

Yeah

Mid-Week wines

Speaker 1 6:42

, it's that hump day , isn't it ? Wednesday is known as hump day , and it's just one of those monikers that we give , I think , to find an excuse to go and do what you want to do , absolutely . And I think what's really important is you're addressing an area that not many people look at , in fact , in terms of that midweek relief that I'm having a tough week . I am really stressed . I do want to unwind , or do you want a midweek catch up with my partner or my friends , and I want something , but I've got a meeting in the morning , I've got work to do , I've got kids to take to school . So you know , having something that is just for those times is quite rare and unique .

Speaker 2 7:22

Yeah , exactly , and I think you know those different scenarios that you just described , those pictures you painted . That's exactly who we're catering to . We're catering , you know , to the parents who have a young family . We're catering to the professional who's got a busy and demanding job . They might need to be up early or they're working after dinner . And we're not saying don't drink . We're saying , you know , in those moments where having a drink might be a reflex , it might be slightly unthinking , you know , make a conscious decision to swap it out for an alcohol-free alternative . If that's a glass of our wine , great . If it's an alcohol-free beer , an alcohol-free spirit , that's also OK . You know , it's just about providing , you know , choice and making more , more kind of mindful , conscious , positive decisions . I think .

Speaker 1 8:10

I love that because that's very much the message that I am hoping to portray with the magazine , which is not to demonise alcohol , not to be anti-alcohol , not to tell people about the dangers and the medical facts , and because I think people already know this right . I mean , if you're old enough to be considering your relationship with alcohol and you're old enough to know the good and the bad sides of it .

Choices

Speaker 1 8:34

Instead , it's about giving people an alternative and a choice that they can make that up until recently , we've not really had . We haven't had many choices other than get pissed or drink a Coca-Cola , and those are rubbish choices .

Speaker 2 9:21

And I think , particularly as British people , where drinking is so heavily ingrained in our culture and the way that we socialise , often those options are seen as quite binary . We are , as a nation , pretty terrible at having a couple of drinks and going home and actually you will have discovered this and probably know this far better than I do through the work that you do with the magazine . But you know so much of having a drink is the ritual , is the experience , whether that's having a bottle of wine at home , you're taking something from a shelf or a cupboard , opening a cork , pouring a glass , sitting down or meeting a friend in a pub or a bar after work and having a pint . You know so much of it is the ritual . And of course there are physiological effects to alcohol , but those diminish pretty quickly and actually you can get a lot of those from having an alcohol-free alternative .

Speaker 1 10:19

Absolutely . It's that coming together , isn't it ? That's what we initially used alcohol for is to bring people together . It's to create that community . It's just that in the last few decades , where it's been taken to the nth degree and you're right , we are very bad at that , just going for one Every time , you used to say it to people oh , just come out for one . There's no such thing .

Speaker 2 10:43

No , there's not , and I think that idea of coming together is very much at the center of what we're all about . We want people to participate , we want to promote inclusivity . Whether you're drinking or not , there should be a kind of universality of experience . You should be able to sit around with friends at a restaurant , at someone's house and feel like you're on the same plane . And I think having this conversation in January is a really interesting one , because a lot of people doing dry January will actually stay away from pubs or bars or restaurants because they don't feel they can go out and have a drink or have that experience . And I think that's why alcohol-free options have such an amazing role to play , because the more people that experience them , the more people that enjoy them . You realize , actually , you can get almost everything that you want from a drink in an alcohol-free alternative .

Speaker 1 11:42

I agree 100% , and it is such a shame that people will just stay at home . They will just hibernate when they're not drinking . I have a friend who is exactly the same . He goes on these throughout the year . He'll take two weeks , three weeks a month , whatever off the booze , but he won't meet me , he won't catch up with me because he doesn't want to go to the pub if he's not having alcohol . And then he doesn't see the point in going for a coffee just to go out . And I'm trying to get him to understand that it's okay .

Speaker 1 12:09

You can go to the pub now and have an alcohol-free beer and still sit in there and shoot the breeze and do all the things that we used to do . And I think now that there are more options coming into play , there are more beverages that people can have . There are some amazing numbers out there about the amount of pubs and bars that are closing every month in the UK . I

Why our pubs & bars are closing

Speaker 1 12:32

love pubs and bars . Just because I don't drink alcohol doesn't mean I don't want to go to them .

Speaker 1 12:37

And there's some amazing figures about the amount of people who don't order alcohol-free drinks in pubs and bars because they don't know that the option is there or they can't see it Is that the back of the bottom of the fridge or the bar staff don't know very much about it . And some 40% of people also would say that If the bar staff were to tell them about these drinks , were to say look , you're not drinking great , you can have this alcohol free beer . You can have a glass of Wednesday's domain that those people would happily pay to have that alternative rather than sit there with a glass of water . They just don't know that they can have it .

Speaker 2 13:14

Yeah , and it's really interesting you say that soon . We market or sell our wines through multiple different channels . So you can buy them on our website , but you can also buy them in . You know on and off trade venues and what I mean by on and off trade for those not familiar , so on trade are , you know , restaurants , bars , pubs . Off trade are . This is like wine shops and delis and farm shops , but within the on trade , when we , when we work with new partners , with new customers , we can insist or do our best to ensure that we're able to go in and train those teams and speak to them about the wine .

Speaker 2 13:47

One of the things that we talk about is generating demand . So you know , someone working hard in one of those venues might say we don't get asked for alcohol free wine very often and the way that we come to that . So how often do you tell people you have it ? And it's actually very , very rare . So one of the jobs I think we're helping people to do is is market and bring to their customers attention the fact that they have these amazing no and low options . And actually what's happening is you've got Bar managers or some of these who are doing an amazing job of curating these options , and then the next phase is actually making sure that anyone who walks through those , through the doors of those venues , know that they exist , because people expect to be able to find alcohol , beers , wine , spirits . They don't necessarily yet expect to find no and no . I think that's changing quickly , but , but , but there's still an emphasis on creating that demand and growing that awareness of these options .

Speaker 1 14:48

I think that's fantastic . I come from a background of hospitality . I've done 24 years in bars and restaurants and clubs and all sorts and

The Future of Alcohol-Free Options

Speaker 1 14:57

I can name brands that we had training from that that came in alcoholic brands . They did competitions you could win . There was one brand that competitions where we could win iPads , you know if , by upselling their beers and of course everybody went for it , we had hats and T shirts and all that jazz .

Speaker 1 15:16

I can't tell you any time that we had a proper incentive , a proper training , a proper Push and a reason to go to people and say look at these alcohol free options . This is and it's difficult because obviously I left the industry During covid . I was on maternity leave with my second and so I never went back and obviously there was a change starting to come through them , but it wasn't very prominent . And now I would like to think that there would be more brands like you who are taking up that mantle and recognizing that it's not enough just to make these products . It's not enough just to post on Instagram and say , look , doesn't this look pretty . We need to be proactive because it is consumers who are driving this . They are leaving this , but they won't be able to do it until we inform them of what those options are and if we leave them ignorant without that , that , that education that comes from brands like you speaking to the bar staff and the weight staff and the front of house , we can't get that message through .

Speaker 2 16:23

Yeah , and that's exactly . It's just making people aware that these , these options exist and there are lots of different ways of doing . This is perhaps a terrible , terrible comparison , but I was talking to my father-in-law over the weekend about he ordered a flat white and I was saying to him I imagine two or three years ago you were never drinking a flat white . And he was saying , no , of course I was . I didn't even know what one was . And you know , if you think about the way that the flat white has become integrated into coffee culture and being led by by taste makers and then that actually moving and becoming a global phenomenon within coffee drinking , that's a mix of supply and demand you've got you've got amazing baristas talking about a new way of consuming coffee , but you've also got Kind of trend led consumers who are saying , actually there's this fantastic new coffee that I style of coffee that I really love , and actually it's that meeting , as I said , of supply and demand , push and pull , and that's certainly what we're seeing with no as well .

Speaker 1 17:22

Excellent , so let's educate some people . Then , on Wednesdays domain , on your wines what do they taste like and what's in the range ?

Speaker 2 17:31

Yeah . So I think , starting at that education piece and it's probably useful to just talk a bit about the space and the

Dealcoholised wines vs sparkling ferments

Speaker 2 17:39

market , so you know what you broadly have , what you broadly have our alkalis wines on one side , and then you have things like sparkling teas , can butchers , ferments on the other . Now the problem with the former is when you de-alcoholize a wine , when you remove the alcohol from a wine there are a few different ways you can do that You're often left with a product that's slightly lacking in body , in flavor , in aroma , in length , and that's because the alcohol plays a fundamental role in creating that flavor profile . If we then look at the things like sparkling teas , can butchers , ferments , those liquids are often interesting and complex , but they have wine like in that respect , but but but they're fundamentally quite different products to a wine . So to convince wine drinkers to adopt them at scale is really hard . So what we've done is taken approach that sits somewhere between the two , closer to

Making Wednesday's Domaine

Speaker 2 18:33

the wine , alternative wine approach . So what we've done is we work with the alkalis wines , but we use them as a base rather than the finished product . So we source our wines from Lamancha in central Spain , we bring them into the UK as the alkalis 0.0 wines , and then we blend them with some natural flavors , natural ingredients , to rebuild those elements or reintroduce those elements that make a wine a wine , so , as I said , kind of body flavors , aromas , length . And so we've got two different wines , both , still wines , are .

Speaker 2 19:06

White is made with our own Blanco , which is a Spanish grape . Our red is made with Tempranio . The white is called pick on to your you've just got it in your hand there and so that has a lovely , lovely balance of kind of sweetness and acidity on the palate and that gives way to quite a nice acidic , slightly toasted , slightly savory finish . The red , although it's a Tempranio , it's quite light , it's quite fruit forward . We've got lots of red fruits , lots of dark fruits , so kind of plums , blackberries , and that gives way to a , a nice kind of a tonic , slightly drying finish .

Speaker 2 19:40

And then the way that we achieved that was we blended in wine tenants A powdered wine tenant , and that was crucial to kind of creating this complexity and this , this kind of our call this experience of enjoying the liquids . If you think about a soft drink , you get a flavor hit and then it disappears immediately . If you think about a wine , you get a flavor hit and then it evolves in your mouth and you have a you know , have some links , you have a finish , something that sits with you .

Speaker 1 20:07

so that's what we've tried to create through the introduction of those other elements alongside the you know , the wine , that the service base hey , hey , I will get you back to the episode in just a second , but first a quick word from our sponsors Me , that's right . This week's episode is sponsored by Lono Drinker Magazine , the number one UK magazine for sober , curious drinkers . Each issue is packed full of news , reviews and interviews from the people , places and brands leading the low and no alcohol revolution . You can subscribe to Lono Drinker Magazine and read your copy online or in print anywhere in the world , and subscriptions start from just £3.45 . Get your subscription today and use code LONOPOD to get 20% off your first two issues over at lonodrinkermagazinecom .

Speaker 1 21:02

With 24 years of experience and hospitality myself , I know firsthand just how intense an environment it can be and just how far down the rabbit hole you can go . The we Recover Loudly podcast hosted by Shell Regina aims to show people that it is possible to recover from these

Exploring Non-Alcoholic Wine Market Trends

Speaker 1 21:19

destructive patterns and to still work within the industry they love . Shell talks to front of house and back of house team members , interviewing everyone from chefs and bartenders to managers and operations , as well as mental health professionals , about the reasons why there is so much addiction , burnout , anxiety and depression in the industry . She asks the question if alcohol and drugs were never the problem , but the solution . So what changes do we all need to make to allow the hospitality industry and its people to survive and thrive ? Subscribe now to we Recover Loudly wherever you get your podcasts . And now back to the show . That's really interesting . So you're doing things in a slightly different way , then , and producing quite a different result .

Speaker 1 22:07

Because wines alcohol free or non-alcoholic wines are struggling , aren't they ? In terms of customer perception , and I think part of that is our reticence to try new things . Sometimes People go , they try something once , and we can be quite childlike in that . If we try something once and we don't like it , we go oh no , we don't like that , no , I'm not having that again . But you would never do that with other things , right ? You go into a restaurant and you have a burger that you don't like . You never say I'm never having a burger again . You go and try a different one somewhere else , whereas I don't find that people are giving non-alcoholic and alcohol free wines the same opportunities . I read in an article that you were part of recently . Someone mentioned that alcohol free wines are often glorified grape juice . Is this a kind of attitude that you're finding a lot of , or is it not so much with what you're producing .

Speaker 2 23:08

I think a lot of what you've just said is spot on and very relevant to what we and I experience on a daily basis . I mean , at risk of sounding like a management consultant , we talk about there kind of being two blockers to growth for the category and the industry as a whole . It's awareness and appreciation . Most people don't know non-alcoholic wine exists and if they do they think it's all terrible because they've had a bad experience previously , they've had something that's overly cloying , overly sweet , and so they've pushed away from that category . The good news is most people thought that about non-alcoholic beer as well , and look at that , now that is . I would say that 2023 was probably the year that non-alcoholic beer crossed into the mainstream , and I really do feel that that's happening with non-alcoholic wine now , and I suspect 2024 will be the year that that similarly pushes into the mainstream . Of course we have problems , not problems . We get feedback around . This is just grape juice or what's the point ? I don't get it .

Speaker 2 24:14

I think wine also has another challenge which is especially relevant for us .

Speaker 2 24:19

When we have one white wine , one red wine , everyone's reference point is their favorite alcoholic red or white wine and the sheer variety of wines that exist , whether that be grape varietals or styles or blends or ABVs , whatever it is , and if you match that against people's flavor preferences or taste buds or taste profiles , that is a nigh on impossible task , because someone comes into it and wants it to taste like a Pinot Noir or , conversely , like a Malbec .

Speaker 2 24:53

So there's always going to be that difficulty that we face . So one of the things that we've got better at and become bolder with as a brand is kind of signposting what our wines are

This wine might not be for you

Speaker 2 25:04

and what they are , so saying , if you like , this Wednesday's DMA is going to be for you . If you like , that Wednesday's DMA is not going to be for you , we'd love the feedback and we will get there and we will release new wines and develop new products , but this might not be for you right now . And I think being bolder in that has certainly helped us and certainly helped our customers in signposting whether the product is for them or not .

Speaker 1 25:29

I really admire that because I think a lot of people in all sorts of businesses try to reach everyone , and if you try to serve everyone , you won't serve anyone . Because the old adage that you can't please all of the people all of the time is very much true . But you can please some of the people some of the time and if you make it clear to those people what your wines are , what the flavour profiles are , what the experience will be and who you're trying to serve , then those are the people that are going to find you and appreciate you . So I commend you for doing that , because it's quite brave as well . A lot of people aren't prepared to say oh no , no , this isn't for you , but there's nothing wrong with that . There's nothing wrong with being open about that .

Speaker 2 26:17

And it's worth saying , denise , that is something that has evolved over time . We definitely didn't come out of the gates like that . It's a process that has kind of developed as we've had lots of different conversations , conversations with people drinking our wine in their homes , people drinking in restaurants , working with sommeliers , working with bar managers , and just understanding that . And I think my role principally is to gather all that feedback and help us to navigate that path . And seeing where we say no , we're holding firm , this is who we are , this is how we operate , and saying actually , we all conversely saying , yeah , we might need to change that .

Speaker 1 27:02

I wanted to ask you about food , because I notice you speak a lot about food

Alcohol-free wine & food

Speaker 1 27:08

. It's clearly a passion , whether it's just yourself personally or the team that you work with . You do some wonderful images of your wines with some great spreads that always make me both equally hungry and thirsty . So tell me about the relationship with Wednesday's Domain and food and some pairings that you might suggest for people to try with the wines .

Speaker 2 27:33

Yeah , and first of all , I'm glad to hear that you like the imagery and the photography . I think , if you think about the way that most people drink wine , they drink it with a meal .

Exploring Wine Pairings and Alcohol-Free Options

Speaker 2 27:45

It's often something that they're sitting down to have . It might be that they open a bottle whilst they're cooking . It might be that they have a glass when they sit down in a restaurant or when they're sitting down with friends or family . So wine and food are inherently paired and related . I think you have the added benefit of people often think about which wine would go with which food type , and I'm not necessarily saying that you need to have a sommelier level education to think about that . I'm talking about it in terms of very simple terms . We're having a roast , we're having some red wine , we're having fish , we're having some white wine , and that's not to say that those are hard and fast rules , but that is . Those are relationships that exist in a lot of people's minds . In terms of our wines , our whites pecan . I think that goes beautifully with seafood . It goes wonderfully with fish and grilled vegetables , our red sanguine . That goes really nicely with slightly spicier foods , with slightly oilier dishes as well oilier meats , I would say with our red wine sanguine . The other thing is , because it is quite light , because it is quite fruit forward , it also works well .

Speaker 2 29:00

Lightly chilled and this is one of the things that I feel really honoured sounds a bit highfaluting and ridiculous . But to have a voice within the space and to be able to talk about these assumptions that exist within wine we should challenge . I think more and more people are getting into chilling their red wine and saying , well , why can't I ? And actually that's one of the things that we absolutely love being at the forefront of and having a voice in the space to promote is enjoy your wine how you want to enjoy your wine , and if it is slightly warmer outside and you do want to chill it , then great . Equally , if you want to have it at room temperature as you normally would , then that's fantastic .

Speaker 2 29:42

One of our restaurant partners that we work with has a Wednesday to main sanguine sangria . So red wine , alcohol-free red wine sangria . And I saw them recently and I asked has anyone been mad enough to order an alcohol-free sangria ? And they said it's absolutely flying . So people are interested in experimenting . People are interested in working out where alcohol-free options fit into their lives , whether that's with food or otherwise .

Speaker 1 30:09

I think that's wonderful , because one of the things that I think is great about alcohol-free or low-knowing in general is that

Making up the rules

Speaker 1 30:17

we're kind of , as an industry , we're kind of making up a new set of rules as we go along . So there's the things that we know , there's the habits that we've formed through years of individual drinking habits and how things are supposed to be done . But because there are new flavours coming out , because there are new ways of doing things , there are also new exciting flavour combinations , taste profiles , experiences and ways of trying things that you don't have to stick to having room temperature red wine only with steak . You can have it slightly chilled with perhaps a slightly meatier fish dish . That's really exciting , isn't it ? Being able to share these new ways of trying things with people .

Speaker 2 31:01

Absolutely . And I think again talking about push and pull factors earlier , some of that may come from the brands and the businesses themselves who are saying we recommend drinking our wines or trying our wines like this . I think the spirits category you know that's commonplace from the spirits category where people talk about perfect serves . But also a lot of it comes from your customers who might email you or you might meet them at an event or you come across them in one form or another and say , well , I was doing X with your wine , or I was doing Y and you're like great you know that is fantastic .

Speaker 2 31:40

I love that you're , you know , taking the time to think about these things and and and have the energy to , to experiment with these things and , you know , keep it going and keep telling us , because we're all for it .

Speaker 1 31:53

It is , without sounding too cheesy , it's a whole new world .

Speaker 2 31:57

It really is . And equally , I think you know the flip side of all of that is you don't want to go too far off-piste , because what you don't want to say is we are a wine that is exclusively for you sin cocktails , because people think really , you know , that's not really how I enjoy my wine and I'm not very familiar with that . You know , I mentioned at the start that a massive piece of what drives alcohol-free and consumption of alcohol-free products is ritual and experience . And actually , you know , 99% of our , of people who drink our wine , remove the cork , pour it into a wine glass and drink it as they would a white or a red wine . It's that 1% who are doing something different . But that's really exciting and it's about us striking a balance of helping people see how it can fit into their lives , but also showing them what's possible .

Speaker 1 32:49

Fantastic , luke . It's been amazing talking to you about these wines . I think there's so much more that we could learn from you . The passion that you show is is tangible almost in terms of the way that I think what you do really well is welcome people into this world with open arms and say look , there's space at our table for you to sit and drink however you want , for whatever reason you know , and it's not that people have to be tea total to drink this . It's not that it's only for sober people . It's not that only in recovery , it's if you want to try something different , if you want to have the same great experiences with the people that you love , but without the the consequences of false drink alcohol , then here's a solution for you , and I think it's a great solution . So thank you .

Speaker 2 33:38

Thank you , and I actually , denise , getting quite emotional hearing you saying that , because that is exactly what we're trying to create and that's exactly spot on . So to hear that that resonates with you and , hopefully , others , is amazing . So thank you .

Speaker 1 33:51

I'm sure it will . I've got two questions for you before I let you go . The first is the most important is where would you like people to go and find out more about you , whether they want to buy some wines , they want to check

Where to find Wednesday's Domaine

Speaker 1 34:03

out what's going on . Where should we send people ?

Speaker 2 34:05

So I think wednesdaymainecom is is is first and foremost where you should head to . We also have a lovely Instagram account , which is just at wednesdaymaine . We have a weekly newsletter called Table Talk , which celebrates all the things that you you discuss with friends and family around a dinner table , those meandering conversations , but all of that can be found at wednesdaymainecom , so that's the best place to head to .

Speaker 1 34:29

Wonderful , and I'll put that all in the show notes for everyone so that they can hop on over to your website or your Instagram and get on the newsletter . Because I'm on the newsletter and it's amazing . I love it , I love getting it and it is it's not as I said before , it's not just you know telling you what to do , it's it's thought pieces and conversation . It's a little bit of whimsy . It's really nice . It's a great newsletter .

Speaker 2 34:49

Thank you .

Speaker 1 34:51

My last question is one that I ask everybody who comes on the podcast , and it is in the vein of spreading the low and no love around the world . So the question is you are , it's the weekend , it's a sunny looking out my window at the moment it's not very sunny , but imagine it's the weekend , it's a sunny day , you're off to a barbecue with the missus and the new baby and you're bringing a couple of drinks along for yourself to enjoy , other than the fabulous wednesdays domain . What other low and no drinks do you like to enjoy on that sort of occasion ?

Speaker 2 35:26

God , it's a good question . I mean , I would say my cupboards are ever expanding and , to be honest , my life is going to be even more annoyed at me because I'll be packing

What else is Luke drinking?

Speaker 2 35:37

in yet more drinks to our . So it's only cupboard , I think I would .

Speaker 2 35:46

I'm going to talk through a few options that I love , so I you know , I think I would be bringing a beer because , despite running an alcohol-free wine business , I'm probably a beer drinker at heart . So I would either be bringing , you know , a lucky saint or a daze , or I actually love an infinite session , which I think is a cracking alcohol-free beer . I would probably be bringing a sparkling option , so I'd probably bring real drinks . You know , they have some lovely sparkling teas that they make in their their own fermentery and I think their branding is beautiful peony blush , which is their their pink sparkling is , is fantastic .

Speaker 2 36:24

And then I think for later on , I might actually bring quarter , which I don't know if you're familiar with . So they make a 12% gin and 12% tequila . I actually bought my wife some of that over Christmas because , you know , being a mother to a newborn baby , you necessarily want to be drinking a load over Christmas , and I think it allowed her to have that experience of having a drink but also having something sessionable . So I think the third and final option I'd bring would be probably a quarter tequila for anyone wanting a margarita the next day having a wanting a margarita but having something to get up for the next day .

Speaker 1 37:00

Good selection there , great choices . I like , I like the sound of that . I am familiar with quarter . I haven't tried it yet but I do want to because I like that . They have that , that sort of mid-range in terms of the spirits of the , obviously the quarter percent of the usual , like the Decim , which is a 10% spirit brand . You know that , which I think we're going to start seeing a lot more of

Mid range spirits, wines & beers

Speaker 1 37:23

the mid-range coming through this year , and particularly with wines because of the duty changes , but with the spirits as well .

Speaker 2 37:34

And then I mean that feels like a whole separate conversation .

Speaker 1 37:37

But I think Lo is an fascinating space .

Speaker 2 37:39

I think if you look at what someone like SmallBeer has done in , has done in Beard with their two , three percent options , very sessionable , perfect if you want that balance between you know they're kind of perfect in certain moments . So yeah , I think Lo will grow and expand exponentially in the next few years .

Speaker 1 37:59

I think it's an interesting area and you're right , it is probably for another conversation . But I think it's interesting because , in terms of the market , no is definitely leading the way In the Lo-No market . People generally , if they're not drinking alcohol , they tend to go for no . But I think what's happening is that because people are now seeing that they have these options and that there is more out there , that Lo is starting to creep back up again and that there are those that want to have because no matter what processes people use , obviously with no alcohol , the taste of alcohol , if that's what people like you can still get it . With the lower options , like the five percent wines , le Cap is a new five percent wine . Nice , I've just brought one out at three point two , I think Three .

Speaker 2 38:47

Point four maybe . Yeah , you're right .

Speaker 1 38:50

And then , like you say , smallbeer and Impossible . So there is definitely a growing range and I think that the more that enter that market , the more awareness there will be .

Speaker 2 39:01

And I think it's a case of timing . You know , our customers and consumers and drinkers generally are getting their heads around where non-alcoholic or alcohol-free options and no options fit into their lives and , as I said earlier , I think that's now becoming mainstream . I think that will slowly begin to happen with Lo the minute . It's a slightly confusing , confused , slightly confusing consumer proposition . Because you've had a drink but you've had less of a drink and where does that fit into my life ? And will I be hungover tomorrow ? And you know , blah , blah , blah . But I think , as you know , no , and low focused businesses come into the space and really push that message and allow people to experience those products . It's only going to go one way and I think that you know people begin to question why do they have full strength strengths when you can actually have a lot of that experience at a slightly lower ABV ? And I think to that point earlier around optionality and choice . It's just about having the right drink for you at that moment .

Speaker 1 40:00

Basically , Absolutely very well said , luke . Thank you so much for joining me today . It's been a great chat , very eye-opening , and I think you , as I said before , I think you're doing a wonderful thing with Wednesday's Domain and I look forward to seeing you grow and to continue to spread the word to everyone who's looking for that , that alternative . They haven't quite found it yet . It's definitely one that I recommend that people go and try . So thank you very much .

Speaker 2 40:28

Thank you , denise , and thank you as ever for your support .

Speaker 1 40:30

You're very welcome .