Introducing Rohan & Quarter Proof Spirits

Denise Hamilton-Mace 1:12

Hi , hi Lone-O-Nation , and welcome to this week's conversation on the Lone-O-Drinker podcast . Today I am talking to Rohan Radhakrishnan , the co-founder of Quarter Proof Spirits . As you can guess from the name , quarter are not an alcohol-free or traditionally low-alcohol product . Instead , they sit in a new , emerging category of mid-range beverages and contain a quarter of the strength of full strength spirits at just 12% . I find this area fascinating . As the quarter website says , we've discovered with spirits that it was either all or nothing and decided to shake things up . The stats show that people are shaking things up as well , with 99% of people who buy low and no beverages still buying full strength drinks . It is not an all or nothing world that we are living in . So , like I said , I am fascinated to know more about these products from someone who is at the forefront of the sector and what the public , how the public are reacting and the reception that he's getting for his 12% spirits . So , rohan , thank you very much for joining me . How are you doing ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 2:22

Very well , thanks , Denise . Thank you for having me and Quarter on .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 2:26

You are very welcome . I'm happy to have you here , so I'd like to start with just a little bit of your own background , for as much as you feel comfortable with what was the journey that led you to be to create quarter in the first place ?

Rohan's story

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 2:42

so it's really interesting . As you , you sort of pulled out from the website , you know , this sort of all or nothing conundrum . I'm someone who had a very sort of turbulent relationship with alcohol . I guess very much was an all or nothing drinker , in the sense that I would often go for long periods without drinking I went a whole year sober but then I'd also have moments where I'd overindulge and drink to an extent that didn't make me feel good in the sense that really struggled with the after effects of alcohol . So , um , anxiety , really really horrible sort of physical side effects , and I think for me , going through that journey , um , I personally wanted to explore if there was this middle ground , especially within spirits . I think within other categories we've seen it within beers , uh , wines . To an extent you can really choose the strength you want to go um , go with and with spirits . It seemed kind of crazy that we developed this whole non-alcoholic world and then there was nothing in between , um and so that was my personal journey from like an alcohol consumption perspective . But I was always working in the branding world with the likes of the Diageos , pernos , william Grant's , lvmh's , so I got to kind of learn how to develop drinks brands from , you know , a distillery through to packaging design strategy .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 4:15

And then my co-founder , fabian , who's been my best mate since we were 12 and we're now 35 , he was in hospitality , so he owned restaurants and , similarly , was looking for a drink that gave him better balance , because that world , as you will know , is pretty full on . But also he's a amateur athlete and I say amateur , he's an elite level athlete . So he wants to have it all . He wants to be able to get up at 5 am and train , he wants to be able to go out and socialize in the evenings . We really wanted to together create a better vehicle for that balance when it comes to spirits . So that's really where it started . Fabian gave me a phone call and said I've got this idea for a mid-proof spirit . I said sounds amazing . Because it hits me as the customer . I'm someone who loves cocktails but can't handle them and I said how strong would you make it ? He said I don't know what about quarter strength ? And I said let's call the brand Quarter . And that was really it , and then we started the process of building the brand .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 5:23

And it all went on from there . Yeah there you go .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 5:27

Yeah , exactly .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 5:28

It's amazing , these ideas . Sometimes they come to you and you just know you need to run with them . There's just something about like this is this is what I need to do with them .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 5:38

There's just something about like this is this is what I need to do ? Yeah , and I think we we had always discussed together because I was running my own business at the time , a branding agency . He had his own hospitality business and we'd always spitball ideas about new , new ideas and business ventures we could do together . But this one on the call , it hit me in the gut because of all the things I just explained about my own relationship with alcohol giving up for a year , you know , for all the amazing things that come with that , it wasn't the solution for me because I still missed the physical effects that alcohol can give you the positive physical effects which are the relaxation , the social elixir unwinding , the social elixir unwinding , um . And so I think when you're going to get behind and create something , it really helps if you are the customer and you personally believe in it , um , because you've got to , you've got to sell it all day , every day .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 6:26

So that was definitely a moment where I was like , right , let's try and make this happen absolutely , and I think , as with a lot of the most successful and prolific brands out there , they are the founder creating a solution to a problem that they had themselves , because those are the brands that are led by people who are really passionate about the product and the service that they're offering and making sure that it gets to people who are like them , or like they were two years ago , who need those things to help them live the life that they want on their terms . Exactly . I completely connect with what you were saying about the physical effects , the negative physical effects of alcohol . It was one of the things that led me to my journey to cutting back on drinking . I've never been very good with a hangover and the bad ones were very bad for very long .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 7:21

I feel like . I feel like I get them different to everyone else .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 7:23

But maybe it's just me feeling that , but yeah , I think maybe we might be on a similar sort of path , because I I could be .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 7:30

I remember one time being physically sick for 24 hours yeah , yeah just I was like this is , I mean , and that was years and years and years ago .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 7:38

This was way before I decided to to cut back on my drinking because I was young and partying and having fun , so .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 7:44

But there are so many people now and I find particularly in the older age group

Best of both worlds?

Denise Hamilton-Mace 7:50

because I know everyone talks about gen z and the millennials and they're leading it , but my personal theory is that they just talk about it a lot more . You know they're , they're more likely to take to twitter and to instagram and to share that , whereas slightly older generations you're in your 30s , I'm in my mid 40s all of my friends that I'm speaking to are all saying the same sorts of things . They're like do you know what ? I still like going out , I still like socializing , but I can't handle it the way that I used to . Or I've got things to do , or I've got kids to look after , or I've got , you know , a big meeting , you know , for this project I'm doing , or my own business that I'm running . So it's about looking for something that's in between and that's what I was saying in the introduction about the fact that so many people who are drinking low and no products are still drinking full strength products .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 8:37

They're just looking for that way to have , I guess , what you'd call the best of both worlds yeah , absolutely , I think , um , you know the stats show that the , the , the market , especially here , isn't moving to abstinence .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 8:52

But absolutely , you know , the majority of people that you talk to are looking for better options , and that can be softs , that can be kombuchas , that can be non-alcoholic spirits , that can be a whole range of things . But that's what's exciting about it . You know , gone are the days of it's an elderflower or it's an orange juice or it's nothing . You know , now you've got a whole world behind you there that you can try and really sophisticated drinks that give you different feelings and different experiences , and I think that's what's great about being in this space at this time . Albeit , you know , I still think the UK market is , you know , we have quite a strong booze culture and it takes education and it takes time for people to understand how and where to use these products , and that's really been a big challenge for us for sure well , I was going to ask you about that because it's it's really interesting .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 9:50

Education seems to be the theme that that I come back to so much , no matter who I'm speaking to , when I'm at events or having conversations like this .

Debate on Placement of Mid-Range Drinks

Denise Hamilton-Mace 10:28

It's about educating the consumer about the liquids , about the beverages , what they are , how they can be used . There is a lot of talk in this mid-range area as to how we educate people about them . In the latest issue of the magazine there is a debate piece about mid-range drinks and where they belong in supermarkets and on shelves . I'd love to get your take on this .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 10:53

Yeah .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 10:53

Because one side of the debate was saying that mid-range spirits so unless they are along the government guidelines of the 1.2% or below , shouldn't belong in the low and no shelves in supermarkets . Shouldn't belong in the low and no shelves in supermarkets , because people may be confused or misled or not understand or pick it up thinking that they could just drink it like they would an alcohol-free drink . Yeah , the other side of the debate was if you put these drinks in the full-strength aisles and shelves , that people are going to feel misled . If they recognize what it is or they're not going to know what it is because they're not going to look , they're going to assume that that's what that is , a false drink , drink . And I find it a really interesting debate . Where do you , how do you feel about where drinks like yours sit and are used by the public ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 11:40

I think , going back to understanding the market , I think we always say we're not trying to convert a non-alcoholic drinker to drink quarter . We're trying to be a legitimate alternative for full strength drinkers to have a lighter option and therefore we believe we would want to , and prefer to , sit in a full strength section of the supermarket . Now , on top of that , obviously you don't want to and prefer to sit in a full strength section of the supermarket . Now , on top of that , obviously you don't want to mislead people and for them to pick it up thinking it's something else . I think that's why we've been really direct with our brand name and our products being it's a quarter gin , a quarter tequila , etc .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 12:22

But I think in general , you know the conversation around no and low or low as a category . We're big believers that that needs to evolve Because low being 1.2% or below , I think general consumer knowledge around the category . There's a lot of confusion around it , around the category . There's a lot of confusion around it . You know even people assuming that you know a lucky saint at 0.5 isn't non-alcoholic , when actually it's classified as non-alcoholic . So I think it's brilliant that the supermarkets have built no and low spaces and they're giving a lot of attention to all of those brands that fall into that category . I think that's an amazing advancement of our space . But at the same time , I think , personally , things would be a lot clearer if it was zero . Zero and then we had another category for anything considered low or light , and then you have your full strength space . But we'll see how it all evolves .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 13:24

But from our side at this stage , if we could feature , you know , alongside all of the other gins , all the other tequilas , you know , when you're having that exploration , you go I'm looking for a tequila . Wow , I found 12% tequila by quarter . That's great . Well , maybe that's going to be my midweek cocktail , you know , because we are tapping into all of those people we discussed earlier that are wanting to cut down for a variety of reasons , um , but perhaps wouldn't engage with the no and low section , uh , because they're not abstaining . So it's interesting . There's there's pros and cons to both , but I don't know what you think yeah , I , I agree , I think it's .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 14:03

I , I do think it's interesting , I think it's . Somebody asked me the other day . She said you know , when will we have more clarity about how this sector should be presented ? And I said I don't know , because we're living in it . I can't predict the future .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 14:20

I think that it is developing at such a rate that there is going to be a series of best guesses as to what should happen , and the only answers will come when the public respond and when people start , because this is how the category is growing , this is how the low and mid range categories are growing , because the public are saying we want this , we want to have this . Yes , it's producers like you who are making these fabulous drinks , but without the people to drink them . Then we wouldn't have anyone to to serve . And so I think that , as consumers continue to get educated and to say this is what I understand and this is what I want to have and this is how I want to experience my beverages , that's when we're going to understand how best to proposition them to people . Yeah , I think , in terms of the supermarkets and where they go on the shelves , getting a low and no section alone is is been a battle , you know , and getting products onto those shelves from anyone who's not in sort of the the upper echelons of the drinks business has obviously been tricky , which you'll know far better than I .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 15:32

I like the idea of having a third section , much like you have a third space . You know . That would be that third mid-range section . How far it goes . Who decides where the cutoff is , what ? What is dictates a low stroke , a lower stroke , a alcohol ? Do you know what I mean ? There's a lot of of parameters to to consider and that's why I think we're not going to have any answers on it for quite some time . But having the most important thing , I think , is just having clear communication . I I'm a big fan of clear communication . So saying to people on the shelves not just expecting people to pick things up and to look at the ABVs and to because , yes , some people do , some people look in great detail , some people just grab and go I think having clear demarcation of the fact that there is even a sign saying there is a mix of products in here that range from .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 16:25

X to Y , so someone goes . Ah , okay , I better better pay extra attention yeah , I think that's it .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 16:32

It's it's about . You know , when you look at the el reo full strength tequila launch in sainsbury's , you know they did a great job of exposing this new , uh , promoting this new serve , which is the tequila and ton . And that's brilliant because you had the shelf talkers . People were really drawn to it . It's a beautiful brand and suddenly it's like , oh , I've never had a tequila and tonic . But it gave you the education piece and it drew you in to try something new .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 16:59

And we think in the same way . You know , instead of just having a stale section of 40 gins that are all slightly different because of , you know , flavor or provenance , why couldn't you have interesting brands , like like a quarter saying you know your new midweek gnt , um , try a lighter version ? You know that that brings a bit of exploration and excitement around new products that can tap into that idea that consumers are looking for a range of ways to help them moderate . But you know that's that's obviously where we hope it goes . But I think we're seeing it in other categories . You know , wines now , I think , are allowed to be classified as light or low up to 8 percent ABV , I think it is , or low up to 8% ABV ? I think it is , and so I think we just need to .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 17:49

You know , as the category grows there will be a greater need for those guidelines to change , but at the moment , as I said , it's confusing . You know , I think in Waitrose they have an overproof gin that features in the no and low .

3% gin & tonic

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 18:04

That's meant to be served in a very small measure and I think that was confusing because some customers bought it thinking it was non-alcohol , very low alcohol , then started making usual serves and obviously it's a very strong gin and tonic , whereas when our gin is made into a gin and tonic it's 3% ABV as a double measure . So you know , suddenly you're into this . That's a very light cocktail but obviously in its initial format , you know , 12 percent it obviously is a stronger spirit . So there's lots of fun to be had with all of that and the guidelines and working around that .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 18:42

I think that's . That's one of the areas . Somebody had recently suggested that they they think that the communication needs to move away from abv to units , which I think is an interesting one , because we're asked by the doctors how many units do you drink a week ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 19:01

yeah , no one . No one gives the right answer . No one gives the right answer either they don't know or they lie , yeah exactly um , and you know .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 19:10

Interestingly , you say that when your gin is made into a gin and tonic it's a three percent abv drink . Now , I've worked in hospitality for 24 years and I still cannot tell you , when a drink is mixed , what the abv is . Um , and so I don't think the average man or woman in the street can do that knowledge isuming knowledge on ABVs of spirits and then of cocktails is really low .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 19:35

When we do sampling and we talk to people

ABVs in cocktails

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 19:37

it is extremely nuanced . Even , for example , making a Negroni with quarter , you're still mixing with vermouth and Campari that are full-strength elements . So by reducing the gin down it makes the cocktail cocktail around 14 , which is like a glass of wine . But you know , a regular Negroni depending on what gin you use , what measures you use , is sort of 28 , 30 and so there are so many small little nuances to how strong a cocktail is and I think sometimes you know again that comes back to our communication strategy is calling it a quarter Negroni , a quarter Margarita . It's trying to add a layer of education so that people understand that it's a lower ABV version . But it's really . It is really challenging for sure .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 20:22

I bet , I bet , before we go too far down this rabbit hole , I want to talk about the spirits themselves . Yeah , so we've got here your two in your range . So this is , and I will pop up some other pictures on the screen

The Quarter range

Denise Hamilton-Mace 20:35

as well . So we've got your tequila .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 20:38

Yep , and we've got the London dry gin yeah .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 20:42

And the London gin . So I take it that in the production process , what are the sort of major differences in how your liquids are produced and how , say , a full strength or a low no would be produced ? Where does that , that difference , kick in ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 20:57

yeah , so we are . What we're doing is so . Both spirits are still um copper pot distilled in the uk , but we are following a traditional production method . We're actually making full strength spirits that come off the still at 60 plus percent ABV before we go into a process of cutting them down . But we've worked with this amazing distiller called Anthony Wilson and the liquids took a year and a half to develop . We tried hundreds of liquids , you know , even with the London Dry Gin , for example , breaking out the gin heart into over 70 components , we tested each individual element at different levels of dilution so that we could see how they would interact with a lower ABV before reconstructing the gin heart back together . But you know , the spirits are designed to be served in the same measures , same recipes , so that the flavor still comes through , even though the alcohol is much lighter . But it's been . It's been an amazing journey and challenge to create the liquids .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 22:03

You know the tequila We've sourced agave and yeast from tequila in Mexico , agave and yeast from tequila in Mexico . We've then fermented and created our own full strength alcohol before going through a process of cutting down the strength but maintaining a really grassy , leathery , earthy agave tequila , blanco tequila , but with a nice rounded sweetness through the orange habanero and a bit of spice through the black sarawak pepper , because again , we wanted it to be made into spicy margaritas , palomas , etc . But you know , these , these mid proof spirits , in terms of a engineering process , it was a lot of trial and error because no one had done it before . So it's the common misconception is that you just take a full strength spirit and then just dilute it , and actually that would just muddle the flavor . So we've had to be really clever with the process . So what we do with the heads , the hearts , the tails , what we reintroduce back into the liquid , how we build out these , these hearts , test them , um , to make sure that those flavors still come through at a , at a lower abv or a higher dilution . So yeah , I mean , both of them won great taste awards , which is brilliant , um . But you know , as I said , it was really there was no rule book , which which made it a great process , an interesting process , but a lengthy one , um .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 23:31

But you know , we're always sort of unapologetic about the idea that these are light spirits . So when you , when you taste them neat on the nose , on the palate , you won't get the same burn as you would , from a fuller strength gin or a fuller strength tequila , but as you then make them into gin and tonics , palomas , negronis , margaritas , those flavor profiles have got to come through um so that you're getting the experience and the ritual of that , of that cocktail that we all know and love . But we've done the heavy lifting to take a lot of the alcohol out . So that's that's really what it's all about with quarter is we want it to be seamlessly integrated into your rituals at home and then , obviously , in the on trade , how people use it .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 24:17

We really didn't , with this new category , want to overcomplicate flavor profiles , measures , recipes , because you're asking a lot of the customer then to say this is a totally new liquid at 12% , where they might not know what 12% really means in a spirit context .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 24:36

Then you've got to make this totally new serve with this totally different mixer . Hopefully you're going to spend the time and effort and energy to pull that together , whereas when we you know our D2C customers , some of the guys there get a bottle of gin sent to them every two weeks and you know our D2C customers , some of the guys there get a bottle of gin sent to them every two weeks and you know they write to us saying this has been a total game changer . Because I'm someone who drinks a gin and tonic every day . I might have two or three gin and tonics an evening , but over the course of an evening , a week , a month , a year , if you swap that gin out for a quarter gin , it a massive impact on on body and mind and if what you're really drinking it for is the flavor and the ritual , then we're not chasing the booze you know for that midweek gin and tonic . I think that's what's really been the the kind of light bulb moment .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 25:25

I think a lot of the uh founders that I've spoken to have made similar comments about that .

Replacing the ritual

Denise Hamilton-Mace 25:32

Replacing that ritual . It's that , this habit that we formed around alcohol and having that gin and tonic or having that glass of wine A lot of it is just that . It's just habit . It's . This is how I unwind , this is how I celebrate , this is how I feel better , I associate . You know , this is how I mark the start of my PIMS and lemonade .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 25:52

You know , this is , you know , these things that we've just come to automatically associate with this specific time and place and situation . So , being able to still have those rituals and to still , you know , experience those associations , but to be able to do it in a way that is not going to take you over the edge , I think that's what a lot of people are looking for . Yeah , that's where people are sort of saying , okay , I want to still be part of this world , I want to still be a part of this drinking culture . I just don't necessarily want to have the consequences that you and I were talking about .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 26:29

I think you know , moving into the , the on trade as an environment , you know that inclusivity piece . If you

Drinking in bars

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 26:37

look at a listing like Soho House Group , they've got a full strength margarita . They call that picante , they do a quarter picante and then you do a non-alcoholic picante . So if you're a group of three , four , five , everyone can be having margaritas , but at different strengths , and I think that's just such a great way to to really promote this , this inclusive idea of , of of spirit drinking .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 27:04

Um , and you know , as you said , 99 of nolo drinkers are not teetotal . And I think if it's a Tuesday and you're having a business meeting or you're meeting up with friends , like why can't you have a few no or low ABV cocktails ? And then , of course , on a Friday , saturday , if you want to turn it up , then you should . You should feel great about that , great about that , and I think that's really where a great example of how we're really adding to the experience , because it's plugging that gap between having a drink or not . And sometimes , you know , we do want some of the booze to take the edge off . But you know , monday margaritas at full strength might be a bit of a stretch for for most .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 27:46

So yeah , absolutely . I love what you were saying about that . That menu in Soho House , you know , full strength , mid-strength , low strength . That is what we want to see . You know that and that is making everybody feel that they are part of the situation , no matter what their reasons are , whether they , you know it comes in the same class .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 28:05

It looks the same .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 28:07

Same garnish yeah yeah , absolutely , that's fantastic . Speaking of the entree , then , how has that been ? Because that is a challenge and a half um . You know , like I said , I I have experience working in bars and restaurants and I can count on one hand the amount of times that that lower spirits came in , whether they were zero or or low , no , um , and the reactions that I myself had to them at the time . Uh , and my bar managers and ops managers . Things are changing now . How are you finding that sort of world of of reach ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 28:41

yeah , so it's , it's um , it's a really important channel for us because we think it's very much where the conversation is happening . So , so , when you're presented with a menu , you know you and your friends or whoever you're with , can have that conversation piece to say you know what , tonight I'm just going to have a couple of non-out cocktails because I'm getting up at six to train . Or you know what , today I'm going to have a couple of low ABVs . And then people would say , oh , that's interesting , I haven't tried one of those , what's that about ? And I people would say , oh , that's interesting , I haven't tried one of those , what's that about ? Or , and I think we we see it as a really important platform for this category to be discussed and enjoyed , um and and in like a best case cocktail scenario .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 29:21

But we've we've obviously had to go to these operators , as you said , on the other side . I think they've been really , you know um , well versed in , like non-alcoholic spirits coming in and everyone's put a non-alcohol on their menu , with us coming in as a mid-proof . We always say it's the , it's the challenge , but it's the opportunity , because the operators are always keen to be like oh , I haven't tried anything at mid-strength , so let's give this a go . But then the question is how do we put it on menu and where does it feature and how do we communicate to the customers about what it is ? Um . So we've really been looking to find those early adopters that are going to get behind us as a category . Um , a good example would be we launched into the inception group , uh , in january , which is all the mr foggs control room cahoots and all that . Um , they've got a classic cocktail menu , then they've got a low alcohol cocktail menu , that's just with quarter cocktails , and then they have a really great non-alcoholic cocktail menu . So again , that's where we get our own space on menu . It gives the ABV of the cocktail . It also gives the ABV of the spirit , a little one-liner describing why you would drink quarter cocktails , and I think for us , you know , that's a great testament to the , to the category . But we really need that level of exposure for for us to to achieve the , the volume that we want , and for them to , obviously , you know , sell the cocktails effectively . Um , we're not a back bar product . You know .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 30:50

Our brand awareness , like like many spirits is , is um , it's very difficult for someone to see it and order it . Um , that only really works if you're , you know , sort of like a hendrix or a bombay or um . So it needs to be on menu . And then it's how do we present it on menu ? How do we get the customers excited ? How does it not feature as an afterthought at the bottom of a menu where you know people have just thrown a few things ? In Some of the menus we feature right in the middle of the main cocktail list or you can have quarter versions of a full strength cocktail , which again gives them more onus . It feels like less of a sort of you know afterthought or a space where people feel like it's not as sophisticated a choice . So we're learning a lot about where and how it needs to go on menu , but really it's about finding those partners that are going to get behind it as a category and linking it with the right occasions . So if you think about and linking it with the right occasions , so if you think about a Granger Co , you can have one of our cocktails , a breakfast martini from 10 in the morning , and I think that daytime piece is a really great occasion for quarter .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 32:02

In the same way , we're doing a lot within competitive socialising . So that would be your swingers , your sixes , your clays

Competitive socialising & corporate hospitality

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 32:09

, your strike bowling , where that's all corporate hospitality . So the corporate world of engaging your team has changed from just putting a credit card behind a bar and seeing how pissed everyone gets to now everyone having a experience . But also this is someone's leaving drinks on a Monday , someone's birthday on a Tuesday . No one really wants to get pissed with their colleagues . So suddenly you've got these low ABV cocktails that everyone feels like they're in the in the round , in the ritual . They're not being the kind of good one or virtuous one , but it's just a fraction of the strength . So we've really sort of worked hard to understand where our spirits are relevant . You know we're not in nightclubs at this point because you know people have already made a decision to be a little bit more hedonistic at that occasion . But at brunch , lunch , daytime drinking occasions , competitive , socialising , travel , so in the airports , you know those are all situations where more mindful drinking becomes more relevant .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 33:13

And I can definitely see in sort of I used to day drinking was my thing . It's like being my best mate . We'd go find a nice bar , sit outside and have a few cocktails during the day . But , as you know , alcohol and the sun are not good bedfellows , you know . And and the the effect on your body and your , your brain , when you do those sorts of things is just for me in particular was just horrendous .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 33:36

But having being able to have something and I've always said that one of the reasons I've started doing all this is because if I had known about choices like this when I was in , as I said earlier , my professional drinking days , then perhaps there would have been a lot more times when I could have made decisions . That would have served me better than just going hell for leather on . You know , I love a margarita . I could sit and drink margaritas in the sunshine for hours . That was my happy place , yeah . But you know , after a few it starts being less happy and more hedonistic and more troublesome . So having something that is mid-range allows you to have just a couple more but not have to step over that line , and I think you still have the ability to still have your faculties and make the right decision . Do you know what I think ?

Denise Hamilton-Mace 34:27

I've had enough now which was a decision I was very good at making .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 34:31

Yeah , me neither . I think what we realise is that , you know , really the tipsy part of drinking is the best bit . We believe anyway , that sweet spot of you know , whether it's unwinding

Two drink feeling

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 34:43

or you're enjoying a friend's birthday . You know , we love that first couple of drinks feeling and if we can maintain that , instead of going like this and then like that , we think that's just a much more enjoyable way to enjoy cocktails , because we love the flavor , we love the ritual .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 35:03

You know , like a Negroni is like my favorite cocktail , but if I have one Negroni , it's a short serve , I'll order another one and once I've had two , I could easily have four . Once I've had four , it's a short serve , I'll order another one and once I've had two , I could easily have four . Once I've had four , that's a lot of that's a lot of booze and it's not a great place to be , whereas if you , if you suddenly make that with a lower abv spirit , you're still getting that ritual , you're having another drink , you're involved with everyone . But I can leave , having only had a fraction of the alcohol as everyone else , and those are like the best bits because I'm still feeling nice and buzzy , I've still , you know , relaxed , I've partied , but I can , I can make those good decisions , as you say yeah , and that two drink um feeling seems to be sort of the sweet spot now that everyone is talking about um , you know , sort of uh , what's it ?

Denise Hamilton-Mace 35:45

professor david nutt with his , his alcohrel where he's trying to create the synthetic yeah , so his centia is supposed to replicate that two drink feeling , uh . And then he's trying to create the alcarelle , which is the artificial alcohol which will allow you to feel exactly like you you've had alcohol , but without the negative side effects , but around that two drink sort of mark . So that seems to be I don't know how we figured out that two drinks . Was the , uh , the sweet spot ?

Denise Hamilton-Mace 36:15

yeah but I can , I can you think back to it ? Yeah , okay , that makes sense . Yeah , you've had a . You've had a pint with your friends . You've had a , your second glass of wine , like yay . That's when you're like , yeah , let's get the party started I know that's the problem .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 36:28

Yeah , those with with good self-control can kind of stop themselves there , but others just go right , I'm , I'm in now you know what are we drinking ?

Denise Hamilton-Mace 36:36

I'm all in yeah , exactly , exactly um , the best drinks to be making with your liquids , then . So I know you said we're treating them just as we would full strength drinks , your personal

How to enjoy Quarter

Denise Hamilton-Mace 36:47

favorites to be making with the quarter gin and quarter tequila . What are they ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 36:51

So with the gin , I love a Negroni because you still get that really beautiful floral citrus hit from the gin , but then the sweetness , the bitterness and , you know , as I said , a sort of 14% ABV cocktail . It's just a much more sessionable Negroni . So it gives me all I want from that cocktail . Then with the tequila it would be a Tommy's Margarita . So , as you said , drinking margaritas all day , it's beautifully light , it still gives you that grassy , earthy agave flavor and then the spice through the orange , habanero , black sarawak pepper . Um , so a great spicy tommy's margarita coming in at like a beer strength , five percent as opposed to a full strength . Uh , tommy's , that would be sort of 22 plus . So you kind of you can have four of those for every one regular margarita , which I think is like the dream , and just enough alcohol to take the edge off . But yeah , happy days , those are my two go-to serves .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 38:04

And of course there are , for those who are listening or watching , who prefer things to stay on the lighter side . They can also still use your liquids . Use your gin and your tequila to make lower strength alcohol , lower strength cocktails by mixing with other spirits . You know there are many , many brands out there that have ranges of low no spirits that cover everything I think you can . I don't think there is a spirit now that doesn't have an alternative in the low no range .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 38:27

There was even an absinthe I know they stopped making it .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 38:30

Now I discovered recently somebody has made and I don't understand this an alcohol-free sambuca . Interesting , now sambuca . I have drunk many drinks in my time . I have never drunk sambuca as anything other than a shot . Yeah , why you would shoot alcohol-free Sambuca when Sambuca didn't taste that good in the first place ? I don't know .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 38:53

But horses for courses .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 38:54

I guess , but no . So people can still use quarter gin and quarter tequila and use it with an alcohol-free spirit . So if they want to make a Negroni but they want it even lower than the 14% , they can use uh , vermouth and other ingredients from other brands to help to produce that in the trade .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 39:14

We've got some serves with Everleaf , um , which again bring the the Negroni serve down to uh sort of five , six percent , which is which is brilliant . Um , and and as you say now , the the trade are getting really creative with how and where they use certain liquids to really deliver those different experiences within their cocktails .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 39:36

Yeah , I think the bartenders are the people that we really need to get on our side in terms of this market whether it's low , no or mid Because they are the gatekeepers . People go out and they have a great drinking experience and somebody explains it to them and they feel cared for and looked after and they have a wonderful drink . That's the drink they then go and look for in the supermarket and say , oh yeah , I had a wonderful one with this one and , you know , go home and try and make it and experiment with it . That's where I think the education really needs to lie , with the bar and the wait staff in venues , so that they can share that education with the people who are coming in , who trust them and trust their expert opinions .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 40:16

Absolutely yeah . I mean , they're really the key because I think also now what they're seeing is the value that no and low can add . You know , just from a pure commercial perspective as well . Just from a pure commercial perspective as well . If , as we said before now , you've got great non-alcoholic beers , you've got great non-alcoholic wines , you've got all of this exciting things happening in the spirit space , but if consumers weren't drinking before , what were they drinking ? And now you can see this is all a great way to upsell , know upsell products that you know obviously have a positive impact on their business as well .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 40:51

Fantastic , rohan . Thank you so much . I have two questions before I let you go . The first , and most important , is if people would like to buy a bottle of quarter or they'd like to know more about you or get in touch and see what you're up to , where do you want them to go to find you ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 41:07

So they can find us on Ocado . They can find us on our own website at quarterproofcom . We're also in places like Planet Organic Whole Foods , dalesford , fortnum and Mason Zapp if people order on that on the mind , zapp and yeah , those are kind of the best places to enjoy it for purchasing at home .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 41:31

Excellent , excellent , and I will make sure all of that is written up in the show notes , plus your socials , so that people can go and find you . The last question is one that I ask everybody who I speak to . So it's quite dreary now

Rohan's low/no/light recommendations

Denise Hamilton-Mace 41:45

. So extend your imagination and you're off to a friend's place for a nice summery barbecue . Other than , obviously , the amazing quarter gin and tequila , what other low , no or mid-range beverages do you like to , would you be taking with you to enjoy ?

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 42:02

yes . So I think , um , you know , we , we really have a lot of time for uh , small beer which is , uh , again , a mid-proof um beer . They come around two , three percent , I think . Hot day , nice cold , can you know , that's a great option for me to get to give me everything that I'm looking for , um , but it's , it's all dependent on the occasion . So if it's like midweek , you in the office , I'll keep a fridge full of days which is 0.0. , really great beers . And if you , if you're finishing a hard day of work , that's , you know , a really beautiful , refreshing beer at 0.0 . And then , big fan of drinking wine , wednesday Domain , I think have done an amazing job of delivering that , that wine experience at at a non-alcoholic level . But I could say so many . I can see like the Pentice grits behind you . I think it's it's all about having fun with these different products and finding your occasion to drink them absolutely , and you're right , there are so many to choose from .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 43:08

That's why I I like to throw this question out there , so that we can get people knowing that there's so many different things to try and , as you said , for whatever the occasion . It's so nice now that there are things that fit each occasion , rather than just a beer , so you've always got to drink beer If you like to drink wine . You've got some wines out there , so there's some ciders are coming through , that it's growing and I do think that this , the mid-range market , is going to see a heck of a lot of growth over the next 12 to 24 months . Um , you know that for so many reasons , but it is all going to hinge around that education and letting people know how they use the product so they can understand what they're getting that is exactly exactly right .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 43:49

You know , if the majority of the market still drinks alcohol , we've got a huge you know audience to sort of attract into this category . But it's just finding the best way to communicate that to them .

Denise Hamilton-Mace 44:02

Absolutely , rohan . Thank you so much for joining me today . It has been a pleasure getting to know you and your drinks , and I wish you all the best with them .

Rohan Rhadakrishnan 44:12

Thanks , so much , denise , speak soon .