Introducing Billy Wright & Decem

Speaker 1 1:12

Hi , hi , low-no nation and welcome to this week's conversation on the Low-No Drinker Podcast , bringing you the people , places and brands leading the low and no alcohol revolution . Today I am talking to the lovely Mr Billy Wright , the founder of Decem 10% Gin . Now , billy has been on a journey of many miles with this gin and his desire to create something for gin lovers who want the same experience , but without the alcohol . He's all about flavour , he's all about taste , and today we're going to be discussing Billy's own journey , the launch and relaunch of the brand , why Billy believes that moderation is to be made interesting , and what could possibly be next for this master chef finalist . Come at gin spirits distiller . So I'm really excited to be speaking to him . Hello , billy , thank you for joining me today . How you doing , my dear ?

Speaker 2 2:07

hello to you . What an intro . Thank you very much . Um yeah , brilliant , amazing to be here and lovely to lovely to chat to you .

Speaker 1 2:13

So , um yeah , thank you very much for having me on well , thank you for joining me when I got the email because I'm on your mailing list , because we did meet a while ago , didn't we ? Uh ?

Speaker 2 2:25

probably a year ago to the day , not far off , just as you were launching this fabulous uh magazine and now podcast so yeah it's been .

Speaker 1 2:32

It's been cool , lovely to meet you and chat again and I must say , I must say thank you , because you were , uh , one of the the first people that I had met and and sort of come into contact with in a professional capacity . Uh , and not that I particularly know what I'm doing now , but a year ago I had absolutely no idea what I was doing and you were so nice to me and I thought , oh okay , if I gotta meet people like this , I can maybe get to get through in this .

Speaker 2 2:56

Well , I think we're all muddling through . In all honesty , I'm still not sure I know what I'm doing . So , yeah , no , we're all in the same boat . When you do something new and no one's really done it before , it's always a step into the unknown , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 3:08

Absolutely . You're doing a fab job for the space , definitely no-transcript , and yours is exactly one of those products that sits in this new mid-range that we're experiencing for people who still want to imbibe and still like the taste of their favourite tipples wherever they may be , but just want them with less alcohol . So , before we get into all that nitty-gritty , tell us a little bit about you , because , like I said , you you've been on a heck of a journey . Uh , you've , you've lived a life and a half and it's taking you through this .

Speaker 2 4:09

Um , wonderful , wonderful product I did 40 last year and I am slightly feeling it now . But then I do have a young son as well to contend with , so he's making me look even older . I blame it on him , but no , it's been .

Speaker 1 4:21

They age us , they do . I'm 44 and , honestly , my two young kids have aged me a hell of a lot . I'm with you .

Speaker 2 4:28

I'm more in need of the mid-range and the lower level stuff than ever I was before , all honesty . So , um , yes , no , where to begin ? On , on on on my journey . So I suppose it all really starts with not really not really being able to drink that much when I was younger . So I've always been in , I've always been in search of a lower level drink that I can continue to drink at the same rate as my friends do without me falling over . So I can't really drink much beer . So that was always an issue for me as a , as a , as a teenager , and then going into young adult life , um , fortunately , smartphones weren't around when I was younger , because otherwise I would have been in trouble . So , yeah , the days of the days of people taking um the old little cameras out and I still managed to get pinched .

Speaker 2 5:17

I mean , they probably are on my facebook profile . I'm asleep at nightclubs , so yeah , that that did happen . It happens less now . I mean , I can't even remember the last time I went to a nightclub , but anyway , I digress

The inspiration to make the brand

Speaker 2 5:27

. Um , so I've always been on on the on the search for a drink that is sessionable , that is tasty , is flavorful , and it just wasn't really a lot out there . So I've drunk a lot of campari , spritzes , aperols , etc . Um , and I enjoyed them . Don't get me wrong , I still enjoyed them . Um , but there was nothing that was really british of the same nature . So that's where the whole idea stemmed from . And we I created death and all .

Speaker 2 5:56

The idea came in in the summer of 2019 , after , after finishing a game of cricket with with with my mates and they're all on the beers and I'm on the app rolls and getting a bit of a ribbing um , as we were like , well , can we not make something that's like a little bit more a british and be not as fluorescent and a bit more natural ? And so we're like , yeah , that's why do we try to do it . None of us had any any experience of working in the drinks industry . Um , I obviously have a slight food background , so sort of flavor I understand . And because of being in that space , I knew quite a few people in the industry . So I had a few chats with people and they're like , well , I probably should have turned around . Then they said , yeah , don't , don't go in , don't go into it faint-heartedly , it's a tough old industry . So we were like , no , we'll do it solid , let's go . So anyway .

Speaker 2 6:44

That's where the idea really stemmed from , for decim was to create a british aperitif . So that's where we started and we made it . We made it with some lovely , developed it with two amazing guys , matt Wiley and Rich Woods , who are two of the best mixologists in the land , on the planet actually and we created it and it was brilliant , it was mega and we were so pumped about it . But then when we tried to commercialise it , we just went round the houses and it was just so expensive and then we ended up sort of cutting corners and because of all this times elapsing , obviously the big seas creeping closer that no one knew about . And so covid came and we hadn't launched . So we were sat there with a , with a liquid , which was we like , but I think in hindsight , looking back , it was always going to be a difficult sell because it wasn't quite right , um , anyway .

Speaker 2 7:37

So during covid , we're all sat on our hands going well , we've got a liquid finish , we've got a brand sort of developed um a lot . But everyone's complaining about drinking too much white spirits at home because we're tucked away and we're not having a great time of it . And we've made this liquid at 10 because we were sort of benchmarking against apparel , because they're 11 um , so we're effectively we're making a lighter drink anyway . And my business partner , who's the brains and the brand and the marketeer said , well , can we make a gin at 10% ? So we were like , well , I don't know , can we ? Let's do it . So we , so we did .

Speaker 2 8:08

Then we made a rum and then we finally got to market in beginning of summer 2022 , so quite a long time after the first idea . So that's that's that's a fairly lengthy explanation of the first few years anyway , that we actually did get to market . So I mean we did . We did more than I think the people who are in the drinks industry I went to for advice gave me credit for we could actually do and get to . So to actually launch , and with three , I mean , in our heads . We were like we've got three liquids , so it means someone must like one of them . But it sort of just ended up being very confusing because you've got two liquids that are imitators , as in the rum and the gin , and the other one was an aperitif which was very standalone . So it was all quite confused . So , um , yeah , we .

Speaker 2 8:55

We then decided after six months and of me doing a lot of hustling and banging on doors and getting knocked back and not back , and it was very polarizing the liquids . People eat it very marmitey , loved it or hated it , and we were like , well , we can't have this . And then we took on a bit more advice and they were like we need basically done now narrowing down to the gin , because obviously we've relaunched with that . So I'll just talk about that . That was our biggest seller as well , so we've thought got it together right .

Speaker 2 9:21

Yes , the gin market overall is potentially decreasing in size , but it's still way bigger than the others . So it's like , yes , let's focus on that , let's try and make the best 10 . I'll do the gin , because obviously we're not allowed to call it gin . Um , in case any of the jingle listening , I don't really it's g1n , but um , we decided to concentrate solely on that , to make it the best possible liquid and a proper imitator so that when you try it you go , wow , that is literally like tanqueray beefy to all of the london dry gins that people know and love . Um , but just at a lower level . So yeah , sorry , that's quite a awfully long way around , just saying how we got here , but it has been as you , as I've just said to you all , it's been quite a long journey to get to the point that we're at now yeah , it is .

Speaker 1 10:09

I mean , these things are never just a straight line , are they ? There's always . There's always hurdles and twists and turns and you know , first of all , hats off to you for that great british . You know people tell you it's not going to be an easy and you're going well bugger it , I'm going to do it anyway . You know that's the innovative , creative , fighting British spirit that we have that leads us so many in this industry , to creating these amazing drinks that solve problems for people trying to find this new way of drinking . So just to clarify then , for those who may be new to the brand so you initially launched with three different liquids . So you had your , a gin , a rum and an aperitif right and again , as you said , we're not technically using those names because they have to have a minimum abv to meet those standards , but you had alternatives for those drinks yes , and we all also had 10 ingredients , so it was the name decen for anyone who doesn't know , means 10 in latin , so that's where the whole brand identity sort of came from .

Speaker 2 11:10

We were going to go , yeah , down the road 10 ingredients , name of 10 , 10 , everything around 10 and it just all got very loud and very noisy and very confusing and a bit I over gilded the lily as such with with the june especially , I made it something that I really liked , which is really quite out there . It was quite bitter , herbaceous , savory and I don't . I remember when I was sampling I mean sampling place and people are so what does it taste like ? And I was like , what does it really taste like ? Kenny , it tastes like ours , because I thought making it unique is what would stand out .

Speaker 2 11:42

But actually we're trying to convince people to drink lower percentage . We don't need to convince them to drink a different flavor profile as well . So in my head originally we were like we'll make it unique , we'll make it stand out , then everyone will love it , and apparently so my now advisors tell us is that's what a lot of new gin makers try to do . But actually what the majority of people want is heavy juniper with a bit of citrus , because that's what they know . So , yes , if you're tancred gordon , you're well established . You can obviously then build out the flavor profiles , but the initial one the most , if not all , are built on is a classic London dry . So that's where we went back to basics and now have yeah , and it's difficult , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 12:24

Because , yes , people like what they know . We are creatures of habit . You know , it was very hard to get human beings to change their habits . So , yes , if you're getting somebody to start drinking less , or you're giving them an option to drink less , it's drinking less of something that they already know and are already comfortable with . Um , but at the same time , we're always talking about how we want something new , and you know we're bored of the same old , same old . We want to try something different .

Speaker 2 12:48

I know , but then actually , when people , when it comes to it , I know that when you actually come to it , people realize actually , news , not the grass isn't always greener sometimes . You like , actually I'll just stick to what I know . I mean , how many times do I go into my favorite restaurants or restaurants and go I'm going to try something different and I'm like I just wish I stuck to what I had or what I'd always go for . But you've got to try these things new . But I mean that's the whole . I said we're going to come on to the market and in its entirety . But that is the issue that we're facing right . It's the fact that we're trying to teach people a new way to drink and new products and new things . And people are saying , yes , we want to moderate and want to do that , but to actually take mass adoption to actually get them to do that and then continue doing it is the continuation , is the hard bit .

Speaker 2 13:29

So yeah , yeah absolutely we've just got to be here , for we've just got to be here for another 10 years probably well , you like .

Speaker 1 13:36

You like the number 10 , so that's fine well , exactly it is .

Speaker 1 13:42

I can only imagine the challenge . I mean , I'm marketing a very small , uh , low ticket item , trying to get it out to to many people . Um , I I have the unique advantage of being the only magazine that does what I do the way that I do it , and often in business it's said sometimes it's better to be the only than to be the best , you know , because you can differentiate yourself . But when you're in a market that is brand new , like this mid-range and low alcohol market , there are so many different elements to consider when you're trying to get something out

Challenges of Rebranding a Product

Speaker 1 14:16

there . So I can only imagine the myriad of of thoughts and challenges that you must have gone through , particularly when you had to decide to take a step back and completely pivot on what you were doing , because surely that must have been . You know you've made a huge commitment before and you want to keep that going , but you need to pivot it completely . How did you even come to make that decision ?

Speaker 2 14:38

um , well , we had to raise some money to do it , because ultimately , these things cost money . So we managed to bring on some very good investors who got behind the thought of completely rebranding and changing it and going again , and without them we wouldn't be able to have done it . So thank you very much to our investors and I'm just so pleased that we did , because now I can stand up with one product and go this is exactly exactly what it is , this is exactly what it does and this is exactly what it's for . Um , and this , the flavor profile just continues on that and the clarity of thought just makes the conversations much , much easier . Um , like , when you have three of three liquids that are completely different , that sit in different places on menus and , as you well know , the no and no sector is is evolving , sometimes on a daily basis in in , especially in in the on trade , but just having three just basically really confuse matters . So , like , and also for the consumer , I think , to really understand what we are and what we're about . And now , yeah , we . So I'm waffled on from the question you actually asked me um , why didn't we pivot ?

Speaker 2 16:13

I think we have to as a business . I think if we didn't , I don't think we would be here now , in all honesty , because I think as a small business , you have to try things out and you have to try and fail quite quickly if you're going to fail . Otherwise you've got to have very deep pockets to keep going and keep going , and keep going . Ultimately , our biggest marketing tool is really the products , and if the product's not good enough , then it's always going to be an uphill battle . So , yeah , we had to . We either had to call it a day or change , and we've . We've changed and we've done everything we can now and things , at least , I think , as a product and an image and an identity to to give us a platform to really push on . So , yeah , there was , there was , no , it was actually . Quite . Once we , once we had the backing , it was quite an easy decision to make they do , they say that , don't they say .

Speaker 1 17:04

In business , the advice is to fail fast and fail forward . So you know , figure out what doesn't work , get it out of the way and move on to the next thing , which is which is what you've done .

Speaker 2 17:13

So let's talk about that then , because I have a lovely bottle just on the back of your shoulder first of all , I've seen it on camera , I think there we go , so hopefully the light reflects on that .

Speaker 1 17:25

Well , I will put up um some product shots as well for the uh those watching on youtube . So this bottle obviously I saw your original bottles and I've seen this one and it's beautiful . The other ones were lovely , don't get me wrong

Bottle design

Speaker 1 17:40

. This is gorgeous , isn't it ?

Speaker 2 17:42

Yeah , we did . That was probably one of the hardest things is that we did get some good feedback from our original bottle in terms of looks , but it just wasn't doing enough in terms of saying what we are , how to drink us and , like some of the some of just case in points , like I just I spent a lot of time in um some of our stockists and doing like training and doing sampling , and then I go in like three weeks later and they'd be turned around . So we didn't have a front and back label . As you know , we had a wraparound label , so that was also something that we had to change . So we've definitely gone more classic in terms of front and back label , made it more fun , enticing and labelled it with really what it is . So hopefully it's more understandable of how you drink it when you drink it .

Speaker 1 18:25

So yeah , and you worked with an artist , a New York-based artist to create the labels .

Speaker 2 18:38

Yes , amazing , my art knowledge isn't great , but fortunately , my business partners are . So , when we were just when we were talking about how we wanted to rebrand it and what we wanted it to look like so our audience is mainly female so we were like , well , we need to get some female input because we're an all-male team . Well , now we're not , because our advisors are female and our drinks innovator is female . So that's good , because we knew that we needed to get some femininity on board to help us find the right path and produce the right product . So , yeah , and we wanted something fun , we wanted something enticing , something different , something that stands out , and I think she's absolutely nailed it .

Speaker 1 19:16

Yeah , absolutely , and for anyone interested , I will put a link , because I went and checked out her website and her art is absolutely amazing . I'm like , I'm not an art connoisseur . I don't know anything , I mean I don't know art , but I know what I like and the pictures look really nice .

Speaker 2 19:35

Yeah , pictures look really nice . Yeah , they're just so fun and uh really brings things to life like , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 19:38

So yeah , I think that's important and I think there's a few brands out there that do that that really well . Bativo is one of them . They worked with a professional artist to create a , a world , really , of characters , so that when you are involved in the bottle , you're involved in this , this world and you're really brought into it . So it's , you know , not just a label that says the name on the front and the ingredients on the back .

Speaker 2 19:59

There's a character and a personality to it 100 and we we use them a lot in sort of like our benchmarking , because they they rebranded , they changed their bottle , they changed their look after a year , I think maybe . So yeah , they've got great liquid . Goes very well in the white negroni with us actually , I think if you're in the weekend yes , if anyone's got this in your room .

Speaker 2 20:19

So , um , yeah , no , we , we do use them a lot in terms of , like , how they position the brand and how they look like , because they're all about flavor as well . So , um , and it's good liquid excellent .

Speaker 1 20:30

So talk to me about the flavor then . So tell me about the gin . What ? What's mean ? Obviously , what's in it in terms of how it

Flavour profile

Speaker 1 20:36

presents and how it's best drunk .

Speaker 2 20:39

Yeah , so heavy juniper , coriander seed , angelica root , orange lemon peel , so really five classic gin ingredients , gin botanicals and amazing as a gin and tonic . I love it because it's my favorite drinking a negroni , um , and a white negroni , as I just said previously , um , but I think , and any , it depends what you like . We've had some interesting feedback . So for me , if I'm drinking martini I'd probably go just have one full fat martini because I like martinis . But my wife , for instance , cannot stand them and doesn't like normal negronis because of the alcohol burden , just the business . So having it with us , it just makes it the flavor stay there , but a bit more mellow on the palate , so she actually really likes it . So I think it's it's opening those stronger drinks up to a different type of drinker who sometimes doesn't wouldn't necessarily go for that type of drink .

Speaker 2 21:31

I had to add some lovely feedback from a , from a guy who actually I sent the first bottle to , so somehow he randomly managed to buy an old bottle that we had , even though we didn't have any left in stock . So I had to send him one for the first batch and he said lovely email back saying I'll try this . My wife , who doesn't like gin and really likes it . So yeah . So there you go . So , um , yeah , any I would normally say any sort of gin-based cocktail and you want it . Maybe you want to drink three or four of them . Maybe it's a nice summer's day and you're like , yeah , I'd love a load of Tom Collins' , but obviously can't drink them all with 40% . So that's what we're here for .

Speaker 1 22:06

Amazing . And you've got some recipes on your website , haven't you ? For different drinks , different cocktails .

Speaker 2 22:15

Yes , yeah , yeah , different drinks at different cocktails . Yes , yeah , yeah , so we have . We're pretty much on the website , so far just stuck to sort of basic ones . So like a gimlet , which is quite an old old school cocktail , but again really nice , and martini , um , and I think tom collins is up there so yeah , very ones that people will know .

Speaker 2 22:27

So , to just substitute , we are actually going to be working on some more sort of mixology type cocktails , if you like , a bit further down the line , maybe something to do in my sort of . That's where my food-led background , I suppose , comes in and sort of making things sort of a bit unique . But that's definitely for later down the line , when people know who we are and how to use it . First and foremost , I think primarily for me it would be in a G&T .

Speaker 1 23:00

Keeping it simple , keeping it classic , going going with what people know and giving them that alternative for something that they'd normally go for . You mentioned earlier on that your um most of your customer base is is female . Um , how have you been finding it in terms of communicating and what you're getting back from your customers ? Obviously , we spoke earlier on about you know getting lots of positive feedback and it tastes wonderful . How are people finding it ? Or what are you noticing about this new mid-range that you find yourself in because you've gone for a 10 spirit ? Um , I said earlier on this year that I think that the mid-range is going to explode over the next couple of years . I think .