Speaker 1 1:12

Hi hi Lono Nation and welcome to this week's conversation on the Lono Drinker podcast . Now today I am talking to two lovely brand founders , and they are Amy Caldwell and Christian Harris from the Gentleman Brewing Company . I need to check if it's Gentleman Brewing Company or Co . Which they prefer , but they'll tell me in a minute , I'm sure . So the Gentleman Brewing Company is a brand launched only , I believe , a few months ago , with a very unique approach to their six products . They are all based on classic British personas from yesteryear and from today .

Speaker 1 1:48

The Gentleman Brewing Company is not a dedicated alcohol free brand , and I'm actually really intrigued to speak to creators and producers who are bringing a drink to market in a fast moving , ever changing alcohol free world , as well as an alcohol free world at the same time . So that's enough from me . I'd love to say hello and welcome you to Christian and Amy and ask them if they could tell us a little bit about their own background and what led them to where they are today . So let's start with you , christian . How are you doing today ?

Speaker 2 2:25

Yeah , great , thank you . So , yeah , you got it right . The Gentleman Brewing Company although we're not too precious on the name , co is absolutely fine . Yeah , so I'm Christian Harris , one of the co-founders of the Gentleman Brewing Company , along with Amy . My kind of background is completely unrelated to beer whatsoever . My

Origin stories

Speaker 2 2:44

career has been in IT in project and program management , so the beer industry is very , very different to me .

Speaker 2 2:51

I've had kind of the idea of setting up my own brewery , um , for quite a few years now .

Speaker 2 2:58

Um and um , yeah , kind of October , not last year , the year before I went on a start your own microbrewery course , um , to start to try and gather some skills together . Um came up with a concept of the gentlemen brewing company . Um , and the kind of some of the basic ideas around the beers that are still forever evolving , um , yeah , and then and then company . Um and the kind of some of the basic ideas around the beers that are still forever evolving , um , yeah , and then , and then we kind of flipped it on its head . So , rather than setting up a brewery to start with , um , we wanted to focus on the beer first , so develop some really good quality recipes , um and yeah , well , we'll come on to the , to the botanist and the conception of the botanist later on . But come up with some really good , good , good recipes and then contract brew them to start with , and take our customers on that journey with us to , to building our own destination brewery . Um , that's , that's the idea that's right .

Speaker 1 3:54

You are the first person that I've spoken to I'm sure others have done it but the first person who's mentioned that they went and did a course , because I've spoken to a lot of founders who are like I don't know anything about beer . I just sort of thought it'd be fun , um , but I love

Microbrewing course

Speaker 1 4:06

that you went and you did a course on that was that is that I don't know anything about these courses . Are they really long and involved or is it really , you know , did you love it ?

Speaker 2 4:15

it was . It was a three-day course . Um , and yeah , um , there was lots of takeaways from that course . But there was like visits to local breweries . They had speakers coming in from local breweries .

Speaker 2 4:28

Um , there was some some work on recipe development , um , getting behind the science of brewing a little bit , which I really like . I like that side of things . I've got more of a science-y , logistical head when it comes to this kind of stuff . Amy's more of the creative side . So , yeah , it was a really good course , but it kind of pointed me in the direction because I want to start small brewing and then grow it and scale it , um , but yeah , flipping it on its head and starting with the end product first , I think was one of the key takeaways I took from the course . Um , we didn't want to invest loads of money in a brewery and then work out how to try and sell it afterwards . Let's start with the product first and then and then make sure it's really good and make sure people like it and then let's build a brewery down the line . Um , when we , when we know a little bit more about what we're doing yeah , yeah , because that's no small investment , is it ?

Speaker 1 5:25

just got a couple of quid under the mattress to go and build a brewery ? Um , and then we also have your co-founder , amy . So , hi , amy , welcome , thank you for being here today . Were you on this course as well , or did you come at it from a different angle ?

Speaker 3 5:40

No , not at all . Thank you so much for having us on , but no , definitely not , I wasn't on the course . This is kind of like a Christian seed that has kind of evolved and grown . So my background originally is nursing . I've been a nurse for the last 18 years , predominantly in the NHS and then in private . So , yeah , this is all completely new to me . It's a very , very steep learning curve and , like I said , it's not something that it's not my , it wasn't my original dream . It was something that Christian , yeah , came up with and then it's kind of just evolved and I've kind of come on board and I'm more like the like christian said , like the more creative side of it , um , and yeah , I suppose like see the vision of of it , um , a little bit more so , which combined together we make a really good team . Kit's got the logistics and I'm the the creative , like eyes and see , see , like how it will , you know , look to the world .

Speaker 1 6:41

So yeah , that's great . That's great because you're bringing you're both bringing your strengths in from completely different angles and I think that's really good . I I run um Lona Drinker on my own . I have a couple of people that help me out with stuff , but I could completely appreciate having the benefit of somebody who's got strengths in the areas that you're not as strong in . So it must be nice to have each other to um to lean on , to bounce ideas off , to look at the bits that you're probably not , you wouldn't have thought of otherwise yeah , no , absolutely , we do feel very blessed because we do bounce off each other and we've got kind of all the bases covered .

Speaker 3 7:17

But yeah , I mean we don't always see it from the other person's perspective because we've come from two very different worlds , but it is , you know , the majority of the time it works really , really well and we do feel very fortunate for that .

Speaker 1 7:33

And most of the time you like each other , even though you're not in the same room right now , but you're in the same building .

Speaker 3 7:38

A lot of people can't understand us , because we live together , we work together , we start businesses together . Like they can't , they can't understand . You know that's . It's not a normal um , whatever normal looks like , but it's not . It's not the norm , is it um ? But for us it works , so yeah the ultimate for as long as it does yeah , you're the ultimate power couple .

Speaker 1 7:58

You're just making it happen , taking over the world , one beer at a time absolutely . I like tincture so tell me about the beer then . So you have a range . Well , actually , no , let's go back a bit further before we we start on that . So how long have you been in production ? When did you launch the gentleman brewing company ?

Speaker 2 8:21

so kind of soft launch was January um , we've only just had

Launching

Speaker 2 8:28

the production batch in May for the botanist um . So we we focused on some of the alcoholic beers first , yeah , and they were developed kind of towards the end of last year , so October kind of time we were starting to get the sample batches through that we could look to test the market with .

Speaker 1 8:50

Amazing , and just for those who might not be aware , when you say January because we don't know when people are going to find this episode you mean January 2024 . Yes , and we are currently , uh , just at the 7th of June 2024 , so we are talking about a very short time frame here .

Speaker 2 9:06

So your head's must be spinning , yeah it feels like a lot longer um days turn into weeks at the minute .

Speaker 3 9:15

Um yeah , but yeah , it's all still very new I think the plan was always that the botanist was going to land at the same sorry low alcohol beer was going to land at the same time as all the rest . But it's , it's been , obviously there's . It's got a lot more complexities to it and needs like specialist eyes to um , really tweak and tweak the recipe and , and you know , get it into production . So I think it's just taken so much longer , far longer than we anticipated it would take okay , okay .

Speaker 1 9:45

So let's tell people about the range , then , and how it works and and what the botanist is , because we've referenced it a few times . Let's make sure people can understand . So , amy , in your range you have is it ? Six beers ? Yes , yes , okay , and they're based on six characters , and I think you'll be the best person to explain that to us . So take us through a bit about your beers and the process that brought them to life , because they really are characters , aren't they ?

Speaker 3 10:12

they are . I mean it , it's Kit's brainchild , so he's the one that's like thought up which characters go to the beers . So all the characters have personality , traits or , you know , qualities in them , that kind of associate with the type of beer that they are . So , yeah , we've got . Christian might be better at doing this , but I'll have a go at a few of them . Christian might be better at doing this , but I'll I'll have a go , a few of them . So , um , the botanist that we've obviously spoken about , the low alcohol beer is , uh , based on , um , all the botanicals from mother earth and how we've infused those into a beer . Um , and all the botanists that have come before them . You know , and and you know things that have been used , botanicals that have been used for years and years , centuries and thousands of years for healing properties . Hence why we call it the botanist .

Speaker 1 11:06

Um the uh , oh , gosh I don't know you'd be better speaking . I'll put you on the spot . I'll put you on the spot . Christian , what about you . What's your recall like for the characters ?

Speaker 2 11:18

Yeah , so what we are is a modern take on a traditional style of beer . So at the moment there's lots of craft beers that are like hazy IPAs , quadruple hopped IPAs , that kind of thing , all

Meeting the characters

Speaker 2 11:33

in bright , shiny cans of thing . All in bright , shiny um cans . Um , what we wanted to do is kind of sit between those beers and the more traditional style of beers that sit in a bottle . So we we're trying to be a modern take on a traditional style of beer .

Speaker 2 11:49

Um , so the characters in the lineup we've got a stout called the explorer . Um , simply because , um , the stout is , it's a higher percentage alcohol . Um , it's got the uh , kind of warm coffee , chocolatey flavors that come across , which I find really comforting . Um , and I think of a polar explorer drinking a stout and , and yeah , really warming him up in that environment . We've got the squire , which is our english country gentleman . Um , that is a blond ale . Um , the idea around that is um , yeah , where we live near the peat district , blond ales are very , very popular . It just reminds me of the countryside . So , um , hence we've got the squire , the english country gentleman . We've got the Squire , the English country gentleman . We've got a modern take on a bitter . It's kind of a modern take on the old school pales or milds and that's called the Henry . He's our city gentleman .

Speaker 2 12:49

We've got Heller's lager called the Stopbroker . The idea behind that is there's a lot of strategy that goes into brewing a really good style lager . There's multiple temperature changes over many weeks to condition that alcohol correctly , so hence the stockbroker . And then we've got the captain . The captain was probably one of the first ideas that sprung to mind . Probably one of the first ideas that sprung to mind . It's an India pale ale called the Captain , because beers used to be heavily hopped to ship them to India . They had a high alcohol volume and were heavily hopped to preserve them basically for the voyage , and that's where the IPA came from , hence the Captain . So each of the characters have kind of got a bit of a backstory , and then we've tried to evolve that character further to give them all their own , their own backstory . And then , yeah , obviously there's the botanist as well in the lineup that Amy has already alluded to .

Speaker 1 14:17

That's really . It's a really

Meeting the Botanist AF Beer

Speaker 1 14:18

clever way to bring the drinks to life , isn't it ? To give them more than just a list of drinks ? You're giving them a personality and something that people might , you know , want to connect with and sort of say you know , I'm like that , this is where I work , this is what I do . So that speaks to me For those that most of our listeners obviously Lone . No Drinker is not a recovery platform , but it is for people who are mostly moderating or choosing to drink less , for whatever reason , for whatever length of time . They're most going to be interested in the botanist . So can you just tell me a little bit about the flavour profile of the botanist and what the development was like getting to that stage ?

Speaker 2 15:02

Yeah . So I'll touch on the development side of things for the botanist , and then Amy can touch on the development side of things for the botanist , and then Amy can touch on the flavors . So what I'm also doing in the background is I'm doing an MBA through . It's like a practical MBA course where I'm building the business alongside a mentor , and at the start of that MBA course we were doing a lot of customer research . I had the idea of some of the other characters in the Gentleman Brewing Company , but as part of my customer research there was just a wealth of people that were saying , yeah , I don't drink , I'm not interested in drinking , I'm interested in a really , really good low alcohol beer . So the botanist is a , it's a 0.5 percent it . Actually the production batch came in about 0.3 , so slightly less um . But we we marked it as as 0.5 um . But what people were saying is wouldn't it be great if we could have a beer with benefits ? What ? What would be fantastic about having , yeah , a beer that that would actually make me feel a little bit healthier for drinking it ? And I was thinking , well , yeah , that sounds like a fantastic idea , but I've not got a clue how to do that . But then we started to sit down and talk about ideas for the botanist and Amy's already alluded to the botanicals that are in it and I'll let her talk through those and and the kind of flavors that come from it . It's a very complex drink , but what we've also included in there is vitamins and hydrolyzed collagen . So there's vitamin c to give you a vitamin c boost . There's a whole range of vitamin b there . There's a vitamin B complex in there and there's also hydrolyzed collagen , so it should be good for your skin and your joints as well . So we're marketing it as a function . Ale , obviously there's all sorts of health benefits you get from the botanicals that are infused in there as well . But , yeah , we , we decided we would really try and go down that , that healthier alternative route .

Speaker 2 17:15

Um , yeah , that's that's where the idea came from . To get that idea , we've worked with industry experts to to really develop the recipes . Um , from from my background as a project manager , it's all about bringing in people with better skills than than you have . Um , I had some ideas around it , but let's bring in the pros to really develop this . So the way that it's brewed is we , don't we . It has a very , very short fermentation period , which is very closely monitored , to get us to the abv . We don't liquor the the beer back . Um , yeah , it's brewed to be um a base beer that has the , uh , has the 0.5 , and then we add um a botanical tea that we infuse , and I'll let amy go through through the botanicals that go into it yeah , so it's that .

Speaker 1 18:04

So that's quite interesting . It's not de-alcoholized , because a lot of um you know the low no range is either lower fermented or de-alcoholized . So you haven't stripped anything out . Instead , you've brewed it purposefully to the point where you are ready to stop and then you've added in extra benefits to it . I think that sounds fascinating and I'm really pleased to hear obviously pleased to hear that when you were doing your research , people were saying we want a lower alcohol version . I don't drink and I want something that tastes amazing , because I think more people need to have the confidence to say this and more people need to be able to speak to brands like you , who are predominantly alcohol full , and say you're doing great stuff . But also , can you do something for me as well ?

Speaker 2 18:50

it was pretty much almost a 50 50 split . Um , if I'm honest , that between the alcoholic uh people that like the alcoholic beverages and and the low no alcohol , um , it was literally a growing market . Um , and , yeah , me and amy , um , we both like drinking low no alcohol drinks , which I'm sure we'll get on to later on , but I I like trying them all the time as well . So , um , I don't always jump for a for an alcoholic beer . Um , yeah , quite like a a low no alcohol alternative amazing , amazing .

Speaker 1 19:33

So , amy , let me grab a bottle uh , for those who are watching on youtube rather than just listening , so this is a bottle of the botanist . I will put some other images on screen as well , so you can see the character that we have here . Um , so , tell me a little bit . So , function ale , which it says down there at 0.5% , and so you were saying , in terms of the ingredients and what goes in it , hops are considered to be quite healthy anyway , aren't they ? So you're starting from quite a good base , and I don't think many people know that that hops are actually quite good for you .

Speaker 3 20:06

For sure , yeah , absolutely

Funtion-ale

Speaker 3 20:08

so . Alongside it we've got um hibiscus and chamomile . Um there's goji berries in there which give it like the amber , the darker color that makes it look , you know , more like stronger beer . Um , there's , and then it's like christian alluded to . It is a very complex , uh , flavor profile , so everyone kind of pulls something very different when they're drinking it . Um , predominantly there's the lemon balm , which gives it like a bit of a citrusy sweet flavor . There's um the ginger root , which gives it like when you have an alcoholic drink , and it gives you like a bit of a flush , that kind of warm feeling , so it almost feels like you're drinking like an alcoholic drink . You still get that same kind of you know , feel , that kick . And then there is the elderflower , so that gives it like a real depth , like flavor profile profile yeah , yeah , I I've got to be honest with you , um , obviously we've got these bottles here .

Speaker 1 21:17

Thank you very much for sending them over so that we've got them . Uh , for the recording , uh , we have tried it before . I say we , I'm talking about my husband , um , and when they arrived , I had to um tell him off because he went and he grabbed and he said , oh yeah , this is yeah , this is back . This is amazing and my husband still drinks , so he's very much , uh , like yourselves , um , he's cut down a lot , as as , obviously , we've explored a lot more low and no drinks and he's discovered that there's some great stuff out there . He absolutely loves this and when he was , when he allowed me to try it as well , I really , really , really enjoyed it .

Speaker 1 21:56

One of my favorite elements of your beers is the mouthfeel . Is that that texture that it gives you ? So you know it's got body to it . You know it's that that nice texture that coats your mouth . But not in a . Sometimes alcohol free and non-alcoholic drinks can be laden with lots of other ingredients , because it is difficult to preserve them , it's difficult to to recreate those , those flavors , but yours has got that natural texture to it and I really , really enjoyed that .

Speaker 3 22:20

I think that's the thing . I think that's why it's taken so long to develop it's . It's getting that same kind of feel . So you know you're sat in a bar and you're having a drink with other people , that potentially not picking a , a low or non-alcoholic choice , but still feeling like you know you're , you're part part of that , you know , as opposed to picking , you know , a soft drink or a fizzy drink or something like that , um , so yeah , just that you've got , you know you've got that through is fantastic . That's really lovely to hear .

Speaker 1 22:50

And I think that's it . You know , I was at a conference yesterday and I was talking to a group of people . I was explaining that for non-drinkers or those who are choosing not to drink for any length of time , it's about having something that doesn't other you . You want something that you can enjoy and feel just as much a part of the occasion as everybody else . And then a woman approached me afterwards and she said you know , her son has just turned 18 and he's not a big drinker but he likes to go out with his mates .

Speaker 1 23:21

Of course , you're 18 , you know everyone's sort of that British rite of passage to go down the pub and have a pint with the lads . Um , but he , he just doesn't enjoy drinking very much , but he doesn't want to feel like he's missing out and he doesn't want to stand there with a coke , you know , and he's like right , I don't mind driving anybody home , but I want to be able to have a drink and I want to be able to have something that I can enjoy and something that makes me feel . You know , imagine that age group it's all about belonging to the , to the gang , isn't it ? You know , being part of that , and it's the same as we get older . We don't want to feel separate from our work colleagues or our family or our friends when we're doing something , and so to be able to have a range of beers and to be able to say look , okay , I'm going to be having the pale ale , I'm going to be having the lager and I'm going to be having the alcohol free , all from one place yeah , absolutely , and it's all the same range .

Speaker 3 24:13

So it looks in in terms of you know it . It's not a separate entity , it doesn't look any different , it's , you know , the packaging is all the same . So it is just like choosing you know a type of beer , in essence , which , know , hopefully one day that will be the case , and it's , you know , not the social norm to have a drink , and you're not almost seen as like , oh , you're not , you're not drinking , you know . So , you know it , just it fits in lovely .

Speaker 1 24:41

Fantastic . How have you found it , guys , in terms of launching these six beers you know , at pretty much the same time , in terms of the response for your alcohol free version , when you've tried to speak to , I mean , I'm not sure what stages you're at now , but in terms of , obviously , getting your products into people's hands , into consumers' hands , either via retailers , small shops , that sort of thing , um , just the conversations you're having with people , how has how has that been in terms of the interest levels you get for the alcohol free beer versus the alcohol full range ? Are you finding that people are open to it and taking it and saying I need to provide this to my guests or my customers , or is it ?

Speaker 2 25:38

more of an add-on . It's still very , very early days , uh , for that at the moment . Um , we're we're tweaking our branding , um , just to make sure that that we we tell our story in the right way , um , as as part of that branding . So , um , but the conversations that I've had with people um , like we , we've given some samples to a local pub in in chestfield , um , that is renowned for its alcoholic beers . Um , because we're only in bottles at the minute . Um , yeah , it's quite difficult to get this out because lots of pubs and venues like that want cask or keg . Um , they're not , they're not so keen on on taking bottles at the moment , but we've given them some samples to try .

Speaker 2 26:15

Um , and they've been really , really complimentary about the botanist . They were keen on on getting that in the fridge and and getting their some of their locals to try it . Um , because , yeah , a lot of these people are more , more alcohol drinkers . Um , they go to that pub because it is a renowned beer pub . But the feedback that we've got for the botanist has actually been really , really good . Um , but it's still very early days for us . Um , we want , we want more people to try it . We want , we want more people to give us feedback on , on what we can improve , because I doubt well we've got it right first time as well . So there'll be some tweaks to do .

Speaker 1 26:53

Well , you're very close . If you haven't got it right , you're very , very close .

Speaker 2 26:57

Excellent , thank you .

Speaker 1 26:58

So is the plan to then be getting to more sort of trade shows and expos and things and getting out there with the man on the street and just getting liquid on lips as lips , as they say yeah , absolutely , it's 100% that it's building that brand awareness , getting it out there .

Speaker 2 27:15

Um , yeah , we want to do some events , um that kind of thing , and I I see the botanist as actually probably one of the the the the flagship beers in the range um , I don't think anyone's done anything like that where they've tried to infuse like vitamins into into a low , no alcohol beverage um , certainly not a beer .

Extending the range of AF

Speaker 2 27:39

I know that there's other businesses out there like impossible that've got nootropics in there and that kind of thing to give you that that chilled feeling . Um , yeah , I think the botanist is really standout in our line-up and the conversations we've had with people , everyone is really , really intrigued to try it . It's something different .

Speaker 1 28:00

Absolutely , and you've got six in the range , including the botanist . It's obviously early days , as you said , looking further down the line in a , in a in an ideal world perhaps , because I'm pretty sure you're quite busy at the moment would you uh have any plans to extend the the low no selection that you have with with other uh types , or do you think you'll keep going with just the botanist ?

Speaker 2 28:27

no , I've , I've got other character ideas that that fit in quite nicely . For another , yeah , another low , no drinker , um , I'm a , I'm a massive petrol head , um . So targeting a beer towards the motorist , which it may be called that um , would , I think , be perfect in the lineup as well . I'd probably look down the styles of it more , maybe just a non-alcoholic lager , but try and , yeah , bring across some of our learnings to try and give that mouthfeel and those kind of things . But , yeah , there's definitely more in the pipeline . There's lots of other characters , but , yeah , there's definitely more in the pipeline .

Speaker 1 29:11

There's lots of other characters . I'm looking at Amy's face to see if she's ready for this marketing with the whole new character .

Speaker 3 29:16

No , the thing is , we started with all the beers . I mean , you could go on forever , couldn't you with your ideas ? But yeah , the motorist has always been there from pretty early on . So , yeah , no , no , I'm expecting it fantastic .

Speaker 1 29:33

Well , I'll definitely keep an eye out for that one , because if it's anything like the botanist , I definitely want to give it . Give it a go . Oh , thank you . Fantastic . Um , so where do people go to find out more about , uh , about , the botanist ? Where can they try and go and see these wonderful characters that we've been talking about ?

Speaker 2 29:50

so we are predominantly online at the moment . Um , hopefully , in the coming months , if people are watching this a few months down the line , they'll be able to to get it at more local locations to them . But online at the moment , our website's um wwwtgbcocouk . Yeah , and you can get that online . We've tried to keep it competitively priced with the rest of the range so they're all priced exactly the same , even though there's some more elements that go into the botanist . There's not the duty that we have to pay . So , yeah , we've tried to keep everything the same because I know sometimes with with low no brands , they're they're they're more expensive to buy , which would put people off . But I wanted to keep the range all all the same that's .

Speaker 1 30:41

That's really interesting , actually , because , um , there there are definite challenges to producing low and no beers that aren't faced by full strength alcohol drinks . Can you uh , I'm not sure which of you would be best place this either way talk to the challenges that you've had in production for the botanist versus your

Brewing challenges

Speaker 1 31:03

other ones , perhaps some of the learnings that you mentioned a steep learning curve earlier on that you've discovered in this new journey so for me , um , it's more about extracting the right amount of volumes out of the botanicals um .

Speaker 2 31:24

So , for instance , um , if you brew a tea with goji berries , you extract kind of 50% of the sugar from the goji berries .

Speaker 2 31:36

That's not a good thing if you're then going to ferment that , because there's just additional sugars to go with the malts of the beer , the base beer that sits beneath it , and then you're going to struggle to keep your , your the alcohol level down and low . So there's been challenges in that regard . We've had to do , um , we've worked with david smith , brewery consultant , um , and he's really he's done a lot of experimentation around all of the botanicals brewed their teas , uh , worked on the flavor profiles to to try and get , yeah , the right level of of botanicals um . So , yeah , there's been a lot of challenges in in that regard . Then there's just the challenges of sourcing these botanicals , um , at kind of competitive rates that you can , you can productionize , moving forward . So the way we brew it is we brew the base beer and ferment that , and then we brew the , the botanical tea , and that's added down the line with the vitamins before it goes through , it's filtered and then bottled okay .

Speaker 2 32:42

So you've got two separate brewing processes happening simultaneously , which you then marry together yes , yeah , exactly that that sounds complicated yeah , it's just about getting the levels right and tasting it the right times and and that kind of thing . And especially because we're contract brewing , we can't be there all the time as well , so we're having to rely on people as well . Um , yeah , the brewery we used Hambleton Brewery in Ripon that have got experience of doing low-no alcohol beers , hence why we chose them . They've been fantastic for communicating back to us and tasting it on a regular basis . But yeah , it's been a complex process , but I'm happy with the result .

Speaker 1 33:29

And then you've also got the other challenges with alcohol-free beer production , haven't you ? Because alcohol is a preservative . Alcohol keeps things consumable for a lot longer , which is another one of the areas that people don't understand why alcohol-free drinks can be so challenging , because you have to go through a whole other set of processes to keep that drink safe , don't you ?

Speaker 2 33:53

yeah , absolutely , and that's why we we opted for a 0.5 volume over a 0 volume . Um , because , yeah , that that little bit of alcohol that's in there does help help preserve the beer . Um , we've got a year shelf life on the botanist um in in the bottles and in the bottles in the way that it's brewed at the moment . But , yeah , it's a massive challenge to stabilize that beer .

Speaker 1 34:22

That's great Having a year shelf life on that because I think sometimes people can not understand those processes that go into keeping alcohol free , beer safe , and how they're impacted and how long they can enjoy their drinks for .

Speaker 1 34:39

So I think it's great to know that you can have this Not that I think it would last a year if you had it at home and you taste that you'd definitely be consuming it before then , and the fact that you've gone for the 0.5% to keep a little bit of that alcohol in there . It's worth noting for anyone who's listening who might not be aware that that 0.5% alcohol , although according to UK guidelines is not considered alcohol free , it is impossible for the human body to get drunk on 0.5% alcohol . Your body just processes that quicker than you could ever ever get intoxicated on it ,

Drinking at 0.5%

Speaker 1 35:14

and it's no different to what you would find in many other products that we consume every day , but they just don't have to have it labeled , such as some orange juices , ripe bananas even oh , there's a big fly landed on my notes , um and uh . And what's the other one ? Oh , bche buns . Some brioche buns can be up to almost 2% , which is , I don't know why , what they do with brioche buns .

Speaker 3 35:37

Yeah , I knew about the orange juice , but I didn't realize like food and things .

Speaker 1 35:42

Yeah , absolutely , and we , the human body produces alcohol as well . So within your stomach right now there is about 0.3% alcohol in there . Don't quote me on that , it's about that much . But yeah , it's to say that alcohol is within almost everything that we are consuming in some way , shape or form , because it's naturally occurring in a lot of things .

Speaker 1 36:07

So if you eat bananas , then you're having the same as you would if you're consuming a 0.5 percent beer um , it's interesting because I suppose that's why I suppose some people have got more of a sensitivity to it than others , like based on their diet , or you know how much is , yeah , in their stomach , or you know yeah , I think the the for for me the argument over , because we are the government is currently considering whether to change the the legislative , the UK which says that alcohol-free is 0.05 , and whether to change that up to 0.5 , which would match most of the countries that we import our drinks from , because at the moment when we're importing drinks , you can have two bottles that both say alcohol free and they will have different maximum abvs . Um , so for me , I think we we should normalize it to 0.5 because , again , you , you can't get drunk on that . The issue comes , I think , when somebody has a medical or religious reason for not consuming alcohol .

Speaker 1 37:11

If you have an allergy , then obviously you need to make sure that you're not having anything at all or if it's against a religious belief . But that's where labeling and communication on our bottles and the cans and the websites and everything comes into big play , so that people always know what it is that they're having . But the majority of people who are drinking alcohol-free drinks , whether they be beers or wines , are also drinking full-strength drinks as well . So most people who are moderating are having an alcohol-free beer because it's a Wednesday Excuse me , frog in my throat and they've got to go to work in the morning and have a meeting , but on Saturday they might be having the full strength . So we're living in this world now where brands like yours , I think , are going to be very much the ones that make it through , because you're recognising that there are different types of people that are wanting the quality that you're producing , the style of drinks that you're producing , and it's not just one size fits all anymore absolutely .

Speaker 3 38:15

I think people are making more conscious decisions , aren't they ? On what they're , you know , consuming , um , and we are those people too , so you know it makes sense to just , you know , have a range that that works for everyone . Or you know different choices based on whatever day it is , or where you are , or what you're feeling like .

Speaker 1 38:35

Yeah , absolutely , as you say , you know you're , you're those people too , and I think that when our producers are the same as us , that's when we get really great products and services . You know , all the best brands are made by people who are solving a problem that they themselves are facing , because none of us are unique in that . That right , you know , either . There's , there's a lot of people out there who are just trying to , as you say , make better choices , trying to make healthier choices , recognizing that I want to drink a little bit less . I want to have a few less , few less hangovers , you know , um , and it's good to be able to have something and go right , I know this brand and I know that I like their lager . Oh , they do an alcohol free one as well . Let me try that as well , and it's good that it's not just the big brands that are doing it . It's not just big alcohol . You are able to do that , but having independent brands like yours , so that it shows that diversity and a range is just the norm now , is what we're all going for . Absolutely , yeah , for sure .

Speaker 1 39:39

So , speaking of which , um , christian , you mentioned earlier on that you do quite like tasting a few um , low and no drinks . So before I let you both go , I would love to put my my final question that I ask everybody who comes on the show . So it is almost summer , it's June , the 7th , as I said , there is a bit of sunshine outside

The BBQ question

Speaker 1 40:02

. It means it's barbecue season , it's coming up . So this weekend you're off to a barbecue and you are deciding that you're not drinking for a couple of your beverages other than the amazing , amazing botanist . What other low , no drinks do you guys like to enjoy ?

Speaker 2 40:22

we'll start with christian and then , amy , you can give us yours as well so for me , um , I'm a beer drinker I'd always go for a , a low no beer . Um , I really like Impossibrew . I like what they've done with the new tropics to kind of give you that that relaxed feeling . Um , I also really like the the Days uh brewing , um Days Brewing Company beers , um , their lager and uh , ipa I think are really really good . Um , yeah , I just like the flavor of them . Um , I I think , yeah , you , you'd struggle to tell the difference , uh , between that and drinking a hot , an alcoholic drink yeah , I think days are doing really well .

Speaker 1 41:06

I know they're in the middle of a big campaign to get more draft alcohol free into into pubs as well , which I think there's a lot of of call for , as , as somebody who drinks both full strength and and um , low , no would you enjoy having a ? Would you order an alcohol-free pint in a pub , or is it more of just a , you know , a convenience when you don't feel like drinking too much ?

Speaker 2 41:29

no , I think I'd definitely order an alcohol-free pint . Um , I think the the thing is is it's it's such a rarity to get an alcohol-free pint . It's always in a can or um or a bottle um that you have to consume that in a in a pub setting um , but on draft , obviously you get the additional carbonation um that that pulls through it , or just the mouthfeel of the beer um , it will probably have more head retention , um . Yeah , absolutely , I think there's , there's , there's definitely a space for that . Moving forward , I think it's a better way of consuming it than than bottles or cans , necessarily I feel like it's imminently coming , for sure .

Speaker 3 42:13

Yeah , you know where you see , see it , you know in mainstream pubs and things , because it's , you know it's the time of year where you would go for , I don't know , maybe like a pint of lager , shandy , or so you know , or you or people will go , but you know we'll choose like a fizzy drink or something . So imminently it's , it's , I can feel that it's just on the cost for sure , yeah , absolutely Absolutely .

Speaker 1 42:35

And , of course , you know , put it on your to-do list .

Speaker 2 42:38

Yeah , absolutely . It's already there , it's already there ?

Speaker 1 42:43

And what about yourself , Amy ? What other low-no or even mid-range drinks do you like to enjoy ? Are you taking to the barbecue ?

Speaker 3 42:50

I think for me it would be a cocktail . So Three Spirit . Oh , the barbecue , um , I think for me it'd be a cocktail . So three spirit . Oh , yes , I don't know whether you've tried the the . We ordered all three of the bottles , uh . But livener is probably my favorite , um , and just mix it with um pink grapefruit and some soda . But very much like the botanist , it's got like um . I don't know whether theirs comes from like aery , but it's got that warm feeling where you get a bit of a buzz or a bit of a kick , as though you're drinking an alcoholic drink . But yeah , amazing , I mean they've been about a good few years , we've been drinking them for a while . But yeah , that would be my go-to for sure .

Speaker 1 43:28

Yeah , that Three Spirit Leibner is definitely one that a lot of people are enjoying because it is it's that , that , that sector of the low no market where you know you were talking about sort of the new tropics and the adaptogens and the , the , something that's given you a little bit of that , that to drink , feeling like the sort of scent years that are trying to recreate that buzz , but without the , obviously without the alcohol or the side effects of it the next morning yeah , for me it's , for without the fuzzy head the next morning .

Speaker 3 43:57

I mean I can just drink one alcoholic drink and feel , you know , fuzzy the next day and I almost like dread it . So , yeah , and you just don't feel like you . You notice any difference . You know it feels like you're drinking an alcoholic drink , so you know it's . Yeah , that would be mine .

Speaker 1 44:15

Fantastic , great choices , great choices . Christian Amy , thank you so much for joining me today , especially as I know you've got so many things to be doing at this early stage . I think you guys are doing something absolutely fantastic with the Gentleman Brewing Company fantastic , uh , with the gentleman brewing company , and I'm really excited to for more people to to try the botanist in particular , obviously , uh , and to see what else you've got up your sleeve , particularly now that I know that the motorist is uh coming down the down the path you heard it here first , guys , exclusive .

Speaker 1 44:52

Thank you so much for joining me . Guys , take care thank you so much .

Speaker 3 44:55

It's been a pleasure , thank you so much we really appreciate that . You're very welcome .