Coming up...

Speaker 1 1:12

When we started three and a half years ago , there were a lot of question marks in everyone's eyes , a lot of pushbacks , even from proud bartenders who said , no , I need to sell alcohol , I don't want to do alcohol , and so on . And now that's in these three and a half years . That's totally changed . That's totally changed . People do understand the purpose of alcohol-free drinks and quality drinks .

Speaker 2 1:42

Before we get started , just a really quick question . Have you checked out the awesome free stuff available at lonodrinkermagazinecom ? Forward slash free gifts ? Well , you should . Hi hi , lono Nation , and welcome to this week's conversation on the Lono Drinker podcast . Helping bringing you closer to the people , places , lono Nation . And welcome to this week's conversation on the Lono Drinker podcast . Helping bringing you closer to the people , places and brands leading the Lono and light alcohol revolution .

Speaker 2 2:06

Today's conversation , I am talking with the lovely Christoph , the founder of and CEO of Rebels , which , if you're watching on video , you can see behind me With a varied background , working for FMCG brands like Lindt Gillette . Christophe launched Rebels a few years ago about four years ago , I believe and his range of 0% spirits now spans six different SKUs , including a rum , an aperitif , a spritz , an amaretto , all inspired by their classic counterparts . So today I'm really excited to learn about the journey that led Christophe to create the Range , what it's been like running a business that's spanning so many different locations , and what excites him about the low-no-spirit space . So thank you very much for joining me today , christoph . How are you ?

Speaker 1 2:58

Thanks for having me . I'm very good , thank you , how are you ?

Speaker 2 3:02

I'm very well . I'm very well . I always like to start by asking my guests to share as much or as little of their journey as they would like to , but what is it that led you to now be presenting us with these six amazing non-alcoholic spirits ?

Speaker 1 3:18

It was quite a journey , I guess . But first we'd like to call it Rebels 0.0% . We are sort of the 0.0% rebels and there are many other rebels , but we're the ones focused on that rebellious part . But of course also we casually call it sometimes just rebels . That's totally fine .

Speaker 2 3:39

No , I love it . Rebels 0.0 . I like that . You are the rebels and you are leading the rebellion . I love it .

Speaker 1 3:44

That's sort of the rebellion , exactly , hey , but for

Christof's story

Speaker 1 3:48

my own rebellion , basically , how do you start ? So , basically , as you mentioned , I worked for a long time in the consumer goods industry , in the fast-moving consumer goods industry , for many brands . I always loved these big brands which are first of all mostly loved by people and known by people and you can have great stuff in marketing . I did a nice career there , but at a certain point I thought it's enough now from the corporate world , or , yeah , on one side enough . But also I was intrigued by building my own thing . But I actually didn't know yet what I want to build and how I want to build . But I was intrigued by the idea that I want to do my own thing and I then dared to quit .

Speaker 1 4:41

My job at that time was at lint for chocolate in marketing and yeah , almost like from the chocolate shop is sort of in swiss . Swiss german chocolate shop says something like an easy job , sort of uh . And then to the , to the sort of liquor area , but uh , again , I just quit without knowing why . And then , uh , I did , uh , come into santiago . I'm not sure if you know it , it's just a long walk through spain where you basically reflect a bit about whatever you want to reflect and and and , funny enough , I did actually hear the first time from this uh category of this no low category at that time . At that time probably wasn't called no low , it was just basically something alcohol-free , uh , things that mainly then indeed like alcohol-free classic drinks basically .

Speaker 1 5:35

And I was intrigued . I thought first also why and what , what's the point ? And then very fast I thought of course there's a big point because I was . I just crossed the 40s , 40 years old border basically , or milestone , let's say and more and more the hang I did like drinking I still like sometimes to drink a bit but what I just noticed that the hangover the next day or whatever the feeling is just becoming more and more unbearable . In the meantime I have a daughter and of course then the sleep is even less long and you need to be ready the next morning . So actually there's time for drinking if you want to drink alcohol , but there's a lot of time actually where there's no alcohol requires just having a good time and a good taste .

Speaker 1 6:23

That's that's why then I was intrigued and started basically , uh , to try to develop some concepts and and seeing how what's on the market already , because it was 20 end of 2019 . So , of course , there was already some brands on the market and I thought what could I do better , different ? And we're Swiss company , so we started in Switzerland . So at that time in Switzerland there was nothing like this yet , so we were the first in Switzerland . It was , of course , also intriguing to be the first somewhere .

Speaker 1 6:54

And yeah , started , and about one and a half years later we launched it in the market is the first three products , and then the meantime , we have six products , uh , or in 12 countries , present across europe . Of course there's some bigger and some smaller countries , but uh , yeah , never regretted the journey . It's'm still very much intrigued by the category and amazed by how fast the journey went from no one knew about it until now most people know about it and maybe sometimes you still need some education and so on . But yeah , it's a great journey . It's been a great journey and it's still a great journey , I think .

Speaker 2 7:38

It sounds like you went on quite great journey . It's been a great journey and it's still a great journey . I think it sounds like you went on quite a journey . I mean to take that leap and just go . Do you know what ? This isn't right for me anymore . I can't do the corporate world anymore . It doesn't fit inside of me , and so I'm going to move on without knowing exactly what you're moving on to . I mean , that must have been quite scary , uh , you know , but also , I guess , empowering and freeing yeah , also freeing .

Speaker 1 8:03

Freeing is the right word because I otherwise I thought maybe next to my , my job , I will find something which I want to do or pursue . But I'm a kind of person who needs , needs to focus . If I do something , I do it right . So I needed to quit . So I needed the freedom to do in my mind , to start something new . Eventually , luckily , I managed to start something new .

Speaker 2 8:29

Yeah , and finding inspiration on this , on this walk that . Can you give me the name again ?

Speaker 1 8:34

It's the Camino de Santiago . It's's a Spanish word for the way to Santiago . It's a place . Basically it's just one of these pilgrims , basically you don't have to be religious for that . It's basically just a time where you can walk and be and reflecting about what you do .

Speaker 2 8:52

That's fascinating . It's a conversation for another podcast , but there's a lady I must introduce you to , uh , who loves the power of walking and and that kind of headspace that it gives you so that's fantastic . Um . So let's let's talk a bit more uh about rebel 0.0 , then . So , um , when was it that

Launching Switzerland's first AF spirits range

Speaker 2 9:12

that you launched and did you come out the gate with six straight away ? Um , how did that build up ? Because that's , that's quite a range of quite a selection . It's a great selection yeah , yeah but what was that like ?

Speaker 1 9:24

thank you . I mean , now we started with three products . I I did wanted to launch with a range because I I felt like it's the variety and it gives more , yeah , even more choices to the , the space where there was no , no choice a few years ago . Uh , and and we just tried to to see what's what potentially the most the favorites of the people , where you can actually do some nice drinks which you know , which you might know from the alcoholic versions , also alcohol free , and we started with the chin at that time , by the way , we call the chin alternatives , and then rum alternatives and and the upper default alternative .

Speaker 1 10:07

In the meantime , we have dedicated names like botanical dry and dolce spritz , and so on . Uh , it was a good start . Of course , we also improved our products along the way and now it's like the second and third generations and , yeah , in 2020 , one year later , we launched also amaretto and and this dolce spritz , and , and the last year , even the malt blends which is inspired by whiskey or bourbon , even , and that's where we are currently A range of six , probably not going too far anymore . Of course , there's some potential products which you could launch and we will , but we don't have in mind that we have 20 products . All the same , inspired by the classics , I think for it's it's a good one . We want to push them and and let people enjoy them yeah , absolutely , and and enjoy them , they , they shall .

Speaker 2 11:06

so I've got in front of me here , I've made myself a , a lovely drink , uh , so I'm using here your , and I'll bring the bottle over for those who are watching the video . So this is your dark spice and it's sugar cane and oak bark notes . Yes , I've got to say I want to talk to you about the production , because you've mentioned your technique . Flavour is obviously really important to you in in making these drinks now .

Speaker 2 12:09

I love a bit of spice and I was actually really impressed with this , because quite often you hear things that are spiced and it's just there's a couple of notes of black pepper in there , you're like oh , okay this actually has got a little bit of a little bit of shush going with it indeed , actually all of our products , more less depending on the product have this spice note which we found out along the way .

Speaker 1 12:34

Of course , first inspiration was how can we get a bit of this burn from the alcohol and so on ? I'll say there's a twinkle in the eye because at the end it's not the same but but uh , but actually we noticed this . This spice can make the product more complex in and and prolong the taste , so it makes it longer lasting , it stays rather than just sip and then it's away . This one , it really helps to come and stay , basically , and uh , yeah , we kept it . We adjusted the level a bit here and there because at the very very first botanical dry or gin , alton at that stage was very spicy , like right , really like it was burning .

Speaker 2 13:16

It was a bit overwhelming yeah , I've noticed that with with your drinks . They do have a length in them , which is really nice , because quite often when you're looking at at low , no alternative spirits , you're right , they can not necessarily last quite as long and one of the things that people miss is not only that the mouthfeel and that burn from alcohol , but the fact that it lingers , it's , it's , it's a flavor that stays with you , uh , you know , for good or for bad , depending on what you're drinking it's something that stays in the mouth for a while and , you know , gives that that mouth feel , which is the term that that people use .

Speaker 2 13:50

Yeah , um . And then the other , one of yours , um , which I felt gave a lot of body and a lot of flavor , a lot of mouthfeel . Not to suggest that the others don't , but this one stood out to me as well there's always some favorites .

Speaker 1 14:01

Uh , my favorites , my favorite as well , for those who are listening .

Speaker 2 14:06

this is the Sweet Amaretti . This is spectacular and we're recording this now , at the end of November . This is perfect for the festive season coming up it is .

Speaker 1 14:18

Tell us about this .

Speaker 2 14:18

Amaretti .

Speaker 1 14:20

It's really . This one probably really comes closest to what you imagine when you think about Amaretto , and it works perfectly in Amaretto Sour , which is a very popular drink in most countries not all countries , but in Switzerland for sure . We have also good feedback in the UK and so on . It's actually one of these products of ours which , in the meantime , of course , we need to push them . We , of course , are a small startup . We need to raise awareness , but this one actually , in the meantime , even gets asked by bartenders and so on , because they really think that that works and it's easy , understandable and it's just good taste . It's a nice taste . It has this nice almond flavor , it has a bit of spice as well and just makes very nice in a drink , mainly basically the sour , but you can , of course , also combine it different and people do indeed actually use it for other purpose , like for making a tiramisu or amaretti cookie or like . Yeah , of course also baking is a bit of a second occasion or usage occasion , basically .

Speaker 2 15:33

Absolutely . I can completely see that people would use that in all the same ways that you would traditionally , because , I must admit not just because you're having a conversation with me now it's one of the closest like for likes that I've come across in the spirits , uh category because , as I said , it's it's not an easy task , um , and actually I could quite happily just sit and drink that with some ice and it's just yeah , yeah , yeah that works .

Speaker 1 15:59

Actually , I always say we are , our drinks are made to be mixed , because then it's really the how's it called , the bring out of the main flavor experience , but out of our range this one can , if you want , if you enjoy it , also be a drink neat indeed on ice , because it's there . We don't have a lot of sugar in our products , but obviously in an amaretto , I mean , you cannot take away the alcohol and also the sugar , because it's just a sweet liquor . Basically it has half of the sugar , like the alcohol , but still the sugar helps it make it a bit tastier , maybe also a bit thicker , and you can make them also a nice neat drink . Why not ?

Speaker 2 16:48

yeah and I think that's an interesting point as well , because you know , a lot of people do come into the low no space from a health perspective . Not everybody who's in this space . In fact , the

Health is not the main message in AF

Speaker 2 16:58

uh , the minority of people in the space are here for sobriety reasons . Majority of people are here for moderation or for health and fitness or because they've got a two-year-old that's going to wake them up in the morning . So you know that that that health piece is actually quite important to a lot of people , isn't it ? And that sugar content . Now , one of the good things about um low no alcohol drinks is that , naturally , without the alcohol , you're reducing the calorie count .

Speaker 2 17:28

For you in terms of your sort of marketing . You know you've come from a very sweet confectionery background you know ? Is it important to you that that you're you're pushing that health piece in terms of the drinks , or is it more that this is just a bit of decadence for people to enjoy as and when , for whatever reason ?

Speaker 1 17:47

yeah , it's a's a good question , by the way . There's chocolate , sweet chocolate , and the less sweet chocolate there's more the darker chocolate fan . Basically , I was never the goal actually the opposite to develop like super sweet drinks , alcohol free . I almost feel We've been there . You know , it's just these 90s mocktails and the vino , cola , virgin things and so on . They were mainly sweet and sour or sweet and sugary .

Speaker 1 18:21

And then the health part . Of course it's part in a way , implicitly or explicitly a part of the reason why you drink our products , why you might moderate or avoid alcohol and so on . But I felt like I never wanted to put it as a first message there . Our first message was always like enjoy , have a good time with your friends , with your partner , in a social environment maybe where you can cheers with a as another adult drink which tastes great and and that almost as a side effect , and then also have like a healthy aspect or avoiding the side effects and so on . So we never actually so far we didn't do any ads yet where we say , ah , we're the healthy ones and so on . Also , not yet we have so much less calories and so on . Maybe it's a second or third message or something If someone wants to know . Of course we're proud that we can manage to have less sugar in it and so on . But yeah and then , but also the third one , we did try to exaggerate maybe at the beginning , nevertheless to try to avoid sugar almost at all .

Speaker 1 19:40

Our first gene alternative at that time has indeed zero sugar in it , which is possible . I mean there are some competitors who do that and maybe also a good product possible . I mean there are some competitors who do that and maybe also a good product . But we noticed it definitely only worked in a mixed drink , because without mixed basically it was too bitter , almost unpleasant . And then we added a bit of sugar and we made them also more botanicals and flower notes and so on . It made it pleasant also when you drink it neat .

Speaker 1 20:17

Not to really drink it neat , like as a final consumption , but at least you don't lose the appetite when you drink it neat , because still some people try it for the first time . Our category , our products and can they not imagine that a product which which doesn't taste neat more or less good that it can it can become even better when you mix it with a tonic or so on ? So the starting point needs to be uh , good as well . So that's why they're like 2.5 grams sugar in there , still nothing . But still we we're not , we're not holy anymore , like like say we're not saints anymore and say we are all totally free of sugar .

Speaker 2 20:58

It's okay to have a bit of sugar if it helps the taste okay , talk to me a little bit about your um double distillation method , obviously I don't expect

Double distillation

Speaker 2 21:09

you to give away any trade secrets to any other brands . That may be listening , but I think distillation of non-alcoholic spirits is still quite a mystery to the layperson . What do you do that's different . Can you talk us through that in simple terms ?

Speaker 1 21:26

Yeah , I mean , first of all , we tried to make it happen , like probably all our category basically tried . There were a lot of trials and errors and so on . We along the way found out that when you distill it twice with two different distillation methods the flavors of the natural botanicals because we actually do take real botanicals and put them in an alambic and distill them on the water steam basis the first time and then add another , more modern distillation , which I want this one I don't want to reveal that much , but it's just a second different distillation where it makes the whole thing even more intense or more complex . We found out that this is sort of our own secret formula or process , let's say how to make these drinks as pleasant , as enjoyable , as nice , as complex , even , and long-lasting , as I mentioned before as possible . And , yeah , at the end , after these two distillation steps , we blend the different distillates together , add potentially the rum For example , there's molasses in there we added some other ingredients which which are necessary in in that category and then blend it together , bottle it , even pasteurize it to make it , to make it a shelf life longer which is a big challenge in our category as well and uh , yeah , then that's basically in a nutshell what we do All produced so far still in Switzerland , and actually in the mountains almost , or like at the bottom of the mountains in the western part of Switzerland .

Speaker 1 23:22

Of course , proud we are of this clean , nice mountain water . Maybe it also helps a bit of our taste , but that's sort of our process . We we found out along the way and now still still , uh , keeping it yeah , you're right , you know everyone I speak to .

Speaker 2 23:39

It's all about trial and error and and , and you know , sometimes those give you an amazing success and sometimes you have to go back to the drawing board . So I'm glad that it's . It's worked out well for you um you mentioned the shelf life there . Um , what is the shelf life of a bottle of rebel 0.0 once it's been , you know , once you purchased it and then once you've opened it ?

Speaker 1 24:02

yeah , so indeed there's two , two ones like from production . It's 18 to 20 at 18 to 24 months . Uh , from production . It's quite a nice thing . It helps us to really sell it also to the B2B and then trade and sort of have also this journey for the value chain . When you open it , it's four to six months . We're coming closer to probably most of them are even six months . You don't have to chill them . You can put them on your shelf like you have in your back . That's totally fine even when it's open . If you want to put it in a fridge you can , but actually you don't have to . But for the drink , just put some ice in it . But it has nothing to do with the shelf life , of course .

Speaker 2 24:47

That's really great , because I think that's one area that people don't recognize within alcohol-free . That's really great , because I think that's one area that people don't recognize within alcohol-free . Uh , you know , particularly with spirits , because you know alcohol it does many things other than get you drunk . You know it carries flavor , but it's a preservative and so it keeps things and that's why you can go into the cupboard and find that bottle of , you know , like ouzo from your trip to greece 17 years 17 years ago exactly , and it's still fine .

Speaker 2 25:13

I mean , it might not taste very nice , but it won't do you any harm .

Speaker 1 25:16

Exactly .

Speaker 2 25:17

But obviously alcohol-free spirits don't have that luxury . But I like to ask that question because it's good to hear that those shelf lives seem to be getting longer , for brands like yours because that's the benefit to the . Yes , it's good for you guys , but I'm thinking it's great for the customer to know that at the end , it's great for the customers .

Speaker 1 25:36

No , it helps . Okay , of course it's . I mean our products and our cat products from the category they probably will . Normally , you drink them faster , naturally because , probably probably because you can . It's no alcohol , but but still , uh , it's not that you always drink the bottle in one evening or even in a whole month . I think it takes a while where we have the next visitors or your next occasion where you celebrate something or just want to have a drink , but it's not like in two or three days it's gone . That's why it's important for the consumer that you can actually keep it all while , rather than having the urge to drink it immediately .

Speaker 2 26:15

Yeah , let's change tracks a little bit , if we may . I refer to those who come into this space via Lono Drinker magazine or podcast

Low/no in Switzerland

Speaker 2 26:28

, as Lono Nation podcast , as low no nation , because I I really want to reach as many people , uh , in as many parts of the world who are looking for that support and excitement about these , these drinks . So one of the things I love when I have the opportunity to speak to somebody from another part of the world is to get your perspective on . You know how you see the movement and and how it , how it is where you are , versus what you've seen when you've been to places like England or other places that you've traveled . I don't know very much about Switzerland , so what is the , I guess , reception to the whole low-no market like over there ?

Speaker 1 27:10

Yeah , in the meantime actually , because I've been now , of course , several . Yeah , in the meantime actually , uh , because I've been now , of course , several times in the uk and we have we market our products in the uk and sort of , uh , I , before we came over or up there , we thought , of course , uk is far , far advanced , and you were , because the whole category probably started in the UK . And when we started three and a half years ago , there were a lot of question marks in everyone's eyes , a lot of pushbacks , even from proud bartenders who said , no , I need to sell alcohol , I don't want to do alcohol , and so on . And now that that's in these three and a half years , that's totally changed . Like people do understand that the purpose of alcohol-free drinks and quality drinks , and the industry even more , of course , because they just understand now that they need to deliver something or serve something to the customers . Otherwise they just lose money at the end and then lose customers . And so in the meantime , actually I would almost say we are quite close to the , the , the consumer education , basically from the UK , like the UK , and but still there's still a journey to go .

Speaker 1 28:37

Of course , still not 100% awareness . Of course still not 100% of people know exactly what to do with the alcohol-free things . Not everyone knows what's there in the market . A lot of people still think we are the only ones in Switzerland , but of course there are also other competitors in the meantime . And it's still a journey and probably the main job to be done overall in the category .

Speaker 1 29:08

That's , in Switzerland and in the UK and in different stages of other countries , people still don't fully understand the value of the product in terms of that sort of the justified value by actually it's a craft behind it's , a production behind it's . It's not just a lab product with a bit of flavors in there or a syrup or something , it's . It's . It's the same not actually , not even more uh , craft behind them than alcohol and that's and that's now our joint task of the category that we really educate people , not just educate for the sake of education . Hey , we do a lot of complicated production processes . It's more like , okay , that production process is required to make great products and that's why it also costs something , of course yeah , absolutely .

Speaker 2 30:08

I think helping people to understand that the value of their drink is not equated to

Understanding the value

Speaker 2 30:14

the abv of their drink is yeah , it's one of the biggest tasks , isn't it ? Because it's still people think . You know well , why should it cost so much if there's no alcohol in it ? You know ? And and understanding that that's . That's not the thing in your drink that costs money .

Speaker 2 30:32

That's you know , um , but people just don't quite . Some people still still don't quite get how much more needs to go into producing drinks like yours than full strength , because you know we spoke about trial and error , but I can imagine there have been a lot of challenges along the way to try and get to something that you can be proud to say . This is what we're doing .

Speaker 1 31:01

Yeah , exactly , I mean find the right methods and then producers because we work together as two distilleries , sort of combine them and find the right ingredients . Of course you're tempted first to make a shortcut and make it easy , but then you find out , no , no , it's better when you actually don't do the shortcut , that you do the extra effort and use quality ingredients . And then all of us some less , some more are still relatively small , of course , relatively to the big giants in the market . Of course the scale will then help to make it a bit less expensive or a bit more economic , because I still feel it's not expensive , it's just we're not cheap . But yeah , everything comes together .

Speaker 1 32:03

I still feel it's not like we're not expensive , it's just we're not cheap . But yeah , everything comes together and makes the price at the end . And it's not that we put the price out there because we think it's funny and we want to be the most expensive ones , it's just we want a premium product , we're proud of that , we want a great tasting product and it's fine for us if it costs something , but it's all somehow in a competitive set . No , we're not out , no one wants to be outpriced and I think at the moment no one is outpriced .

Speaker 2 32:35

You were talking about . We are looking for this and this is what we are trying to do . So I wanted to ask you a little bit about the team , because you know you mentioned you're in 12

Finding a co-founder & the Rebels00 team

Speaker 2 32:46

territories , I think you said , which is quite an achievement . So , first of all , congratulations on being quite so far spread , far spread . It's obviously not just yourself that makes everything , boxes , it sends , it , does all the marketing as wonderful and as skillful as you are .

Speaker 1 33:05

No , I'm not Actually . No , on the contrary , it takes a team , of course , and actually these 12 countries is mainly related to my co-founder , yannick , who joined , luckily , quite soon after I started this journey . As mentioned , I started to develop the concept and starting the startup at the end of 2019 , beginning of 2020 and already in mid of 2020 I met Yannick . I was looking for a co-founder and found him . I actually was recommended by two people from different networks , which , of course , give a bit of confidence that it might be the right one . And he's from the spirits industry , like really from the . We used to work at a distributor , a local distributor , but also for some time in the THU . He worked in bars and he also owns is a part owner of a bar . So he sort of really covers that area , which for me was not unknown , but definitely not my expertise , because I'm coming from , you know , a simple consumer goods at the end , and this category has a bit of different dynamics and it's good to have a bit of a network there at the start of the end . And this category has a bit of different dynamics and it's good to have a bit of a network there at the start point . And yeah , that's the two founders we are .

Speaker 1 34:26

And then we have two more employees in the marketing space , like two girls , steffi and Anna , which basically work for the holistic marketing and also digital marketing and just support us . So you see that all of us are related , mainly on sales and marketing , but of course we have different roles . Yannick is also supply chain manager at the end and , besides trying to lead the whole thing , also product development leads and so on . And then the rest we try to outsource . We have our distributors in every country . We don't go in markets where we don't have distributors . We need to have a local distributor to have the network and the man and woman power in the field . And we have outsourced productions where we basically make sure that we don't have to buy a whole distillery and a whole bottling verse , that we basically just own our recipe . We have the secret recipes and the whole process we only us know . But then we work in these different steps with , in the meantime , two or three partners .

Speaker 2 35:43

basically , I can imagine . It's quite uh . I mean , it sounds wonderful that you you managed to found uh , yannick uh , from two different sources . That's quite a coming together .

Speaker 2 35:54

It's like that's a sign that this is this is , yeah , it's answer of a sign , and then to to bring somebody on , because you know you've had this idea , you've had this passion , you you've started to realize it and to recognize that you need somebody , some , some extra help to turn it into something real . Because I speak to a lot of founders who , um , you know what one of the things I like about on this podcast is a lot of the founders have been quite honest and quite open about how difficult it has been . A lot of people started similarly , around a sort of similar time to you . Sadly , there are people who I've interviewed and within a year or so of producing the podcast , they've already had to close their businesses for various reasons and and it's heartbreaking because you know these kind of projects yes , it's a business , but it's also a passion project .

Speaker 1 36:42

It needs to be passionate , otherwise definitely it will fail .

Speaker 2 36:46

Basically , yeah , you can't do something like this . You can't produce drinks like this if you don't really really care about them . Because you know , if you're not prepared to spend hours and hours and hours , spend an entire day just tasting one drink and making a tiny drink to it , then people aren't going to appreciate the final liquid and ultimately it's the consumer that decides right .

Speaker 1 37:12

Yes , yes , absolutely .

Speaker 2 37:15

Speaking of the consumer , do you find that Rebel 0.0 is mostly enjoyed in the home ? Is it people that are buying it and taking it home , or

Who's drinking Rebels0.0?

Speaker 2 37:24

is it more the bar and on trade side ?

Speaker 1 37:29

Actually , and it's also a bit of a strategic focus of ours that we focus on the on trade very much , focus on the on trade very much , that we actually try to almost like a classic spirit strategy and there are different opinions if that's right or wrong , but for us it's it's . It's it's right because we have a lot of success actually in that on trade area . So we have an off trade . These conscious , like by choice , are in in the premium channel where we can be like premium off trade channel , like in department stores and so on . Of course , depending on the markets , we are in there or not yet . But in Switzerland we are in the major major premium stores in there but not in the mass retailer yet .

Speaker 1 38:17

I would say eventually every brand , even Prima brand , will make their way in there if they want or not . But we're happy for the moment that we've built our brand in this channel in the Guastronomy , like the Entrez and the Prima retail and and that's actually 70% of our business is there and the 30% is online through our own web shop and Amazon in Europe so far and hopefully soon also in the UK . Amazon and of course there's also this e-retailers in the different markets , like in the UK . There's dry drinkers , there's a vice bartender , there's a club soda in the stores over there , and so on .

Speaker 2 39:07

Yeah , I can see that a brand like yours would do particularly well in the on-trade , more so because of the variety , because you've got the range , and I think that it's quite different if you're , if you're big alcohol in inverted commas , you know , and you're you've got jack daniels and it's a single bottle and you know people know that and that they're quite happy to to go and get that . But I think , for from from my personal experience of running venues , when you come to something like a low and know that that the , the bar staff , the weight staff , the management might not be that , uh , educated about or that comfortable with if they can , if you can present them with a range , and they know that all the drinks in that range are of of a quality and that they can use them to make a selection of drinks , it just it just makes it easier , doesn't it ? Than ?

Speaker 2 39:56

yeah having to go and find a low no gin from one person and a Lono whiskey from another person and a Lono from another person . So I can totally see that having that range makes life easier for the entree teams .

Speaker 1 40:11

Indeed it does . I mean , the ease for doing drinks even in the entree is an important thing . Not all the bartenders are as educated as the best bartenders . So we're probably selling quite well in the cocktail bars , like the premium cocktail bars where there's a lot of educated , amazing mixologists and so on . But the major business , of course , is still somewhere maybe one tier below the good good to the cocktail bars or drink bars , where it needs to be a bit easy and another not .

Speaker 1 40:46

Like you don't need to be at the nerdy mixologist I mean that not in a bad way . Uh , that and that helps . Then that you have just a range of products which we have which basically , uh , can make them mix the cocktails which they know just without alcohol . That's that helps . And also then for the consumers actually even more for the consumers it needs to be easy , it needs to be very easy . I mean even I learned along the way that people are not even know even the alcohol consumption . They don't even know how to mix a nice gin and tonic . It's really very easy , but they don't know it . And of course they're scared to do that with alcohol free because they think it's different , but it's the same . It should be easy . Easiness is a good , important factor .

Speaker 2 41:37

Yeah , I completely agree . You know , we want to introduce these drinks to people and let them know that they're available to them . We have to make it as easy as possible for them to find them and to use them .

Speaker 2 41:49

So , that makes complete sense . You mentioned a few retailers here in the UK , such as Wise Bartender and Dry Drinker , so I will make sure that those are noted below . But where do people go , christoph ? If they want to know more about your story , they want to get to buy a few bottles direct from the source . Where's the best place for them to go and find you ?

Speaker 1 42:10

First of all , it's always good to go to the website or on Instagram it's rebel00.com or couk , and that's probably the first where you can , wherever you are , you find find probably the way . There's even the retails listed there . Um , it really depends on the consumers or customers . Do they want to buy it online ? It's probably the easiest thing . Do they want to buy it online through their own web shop ? Or do they want to go to Amazon ? Or do they want to go to Dry Drinker and so on ? That's probably them . I would suggest go to the Instagram page or the rebels00.com or couk and then you'll totally find not even always the same . We will try to update our website from time to time so you will find a bit or on LinkedIn . If you're more professional , then follow us on LinkedIn as well .

Speaker 2 43:04

Yes , yeah , fantastic . I will make sure that's all linked in the show notes below for everyone .

Speaker 1 43:08

Christoph .

Speaker 2 43:09

Before I let you go , I have my final question , which is one that I ask everybody who comes on the show . So I am not sure what the weather is like

The BBQ-Q

Speaker 2 43:18

in Switzerland at the moment . I was going to say , yeah , I guess it's pretty cold . It is not particularly warm here in London , but let's cast our imaginations and pretend it is a nice hot sunny day and you are off to a barbecue at a friend's house . Other than , obviously , one of each of the six amazing bottles of .

Speaker 2 43:41

Rebels 0.0, . What else would you be bringing along with you when you choose not to drink alcohol in the low-noil light space ?

Speaker 1 43:51

Probably a few things , but I mean , I'm still intrigued by the sparkling . I still am intrigued by the sparkling whites , or even not necessarily red wine , but the rosé or so on . But I've tried many of these in the category . I recently also had Zeronimo , that sort of alcohol free version of a sparkling white , and actually it works . Also very nice sour products , of course . That's why . That's why I mainly tasted it , uh , or or or . Actually I would probably even say nino , you probably , most , most probably , you don't know them because it's a very , very , very recent swiss startup where they have a nice red and and or rosé and white sparkling and I love them and and sometimes I also an alcohol free beer , and there I don't like . Well , it's just interesting , I like the lover in the alcohol versions , I do like and I don't like , like the ipas and then and white and everything in alcohol , but I do like them more when they're alcohol free . So nice ipa or a nice white beer , I love it fantastic , fantastic .

Speaker 2 45:04

And I'm gonna add one more in for you , which I don't usually do , but that is to let people know that inside uh the latest issue of lono drinker magazine , which was released uh just before we started recording uh the wonderful quinton fisher , who is uh the founder of QF Consulting and works at Club Soda , which is London's alcohol-free bar has created a beautiful cocktail which , if you're watching on video , you can see which is using the Rebels and a bottle of Moderato sparkling wine .

Speaker 2 45:34

So I'm going to put that one in there for you , because obviously , Quintin thinks that this makes a perfect pairing and it's something that you can enjoy and take with them for a wonderful , wonderful barbecue or picnic or dinner party or whatever it is that you're doing , even if you're just sitting at home watching tv with the other half and want to have a nice drink that doesn't happen to have alcohol in it . You've got some amazing choices from brands like rebels 0.0 and I highly encourage people to go and check them out and get creative and get mixing . I've made myself here a lovely um , rebel 0.0 dark spice rum with a bit of ginger beer from , uh , double dutch . It's simple , it's delicious , uh , and it feels lovely .

Speaker 2 46:16

So , on that note , christopher , thank you so much for joining me today . It's been really nice getting to know you and the brand and the story and whatever you've got coming up next . I appreciate that six is quite a lot to be getting on with , so you might not be bringing out the next in the next few weeks . Whatever you come out next , I'm very excited to see it . Thank you very much .

Speaker 1 46:34

Thanks for having me .